maybe Trump found out the expiry date of the Tomahawks. "how many are expiring?" "59, mr Prez" "fire 59" "yes sir"

Fred99:

 

The pain experienced by the US "working class" was an inevitable consequence of the GFC.   

 

...It freaking well worked - you'll find the strongest nationalist support amongst the "working class".  They're the Fox News audience - unfortunately it's the only voice they think they've got. 

 

US wages have been stagnant for forty years long before GFC. Likewise GFC wasn't what hollowed out manufacturing in the US.

I think you're dead right that they backed candidates that gave them a voice - Sanders got so much traction (despite less money) the only way to bench him was for superdelegates to break from their rank and file (Sanders had clear majority support from women under 30).

Republicans hated Trump too and again on a much less funded campaign he stomped their establishment candidates.

And yet post-election there's no acknowledgement from either party they were out of touch.

You'd think at the very least they'd say it was racism, sexism and being systematically impoverished for forty years.

TheLastTherapist:

Fred99:

The pain experienced by the US "working class" was an inevitable consequence of the GFC.   

...It freaking well worked - you'll find the strongest nationalist support amongst the "working class".  They're the Fox News audience - unfortunately it's the only voice they think they've got. 

US wages have been stagnant for forty years long before GFC. Likewise GFC wasn't what hollowed out manufacturing in the US.

I think you're dead right that they backed candidates that gave them a voice - Sanders got so much traction (despite less money) the only way to bench him was for superdelegates to break from their rank and file (Sanders had clear majority support from women under 30).

Republicans hated Trump too and again on a much less funded campaign he stomped their establishment candidates.

And yet post-election there's no acknowledgement from either party they were out of touch.

You'd think at the very least they'd say it was racism, sexism and being systematically impoverished for forty years.

TheLastTherapist:

 

Fred99:

 

The pain experienced by the US "working class" was an inevitable consequence of the GFC.   

 

...It freaking well worked - you'll find the strongest nationalist support amongst the "working class".  They're the Fox News audience - unfortunately it's the only voice they think they've got. 

 

 

US wages have been stagnant for forty years long before GFC. Likewise GFC wasn't what hollowed out manufacturing in the US.

 

I think you're dead right that they backed candidates that gave them a voice - Sanders got so much traction (despite less money) the only way to bench him was for superdelegates to break from their rank and file (Sanders had clear majority support from women under 30).

Republicans hated Trump too and again on a much less funded campaign he stomped their establishment candidates.

 

And yet post-election there's no acknowledgement from either party they were out of touch.

 

You'd think at the very least they'd say it was racism, sexism and being systematically impoverished for forty years.

 

Problem with Americans is that they have failed to figure out WHY they did so well in the 50s-70s. Its not as though they were great or any such bullsh!t.

Its because they were the only large, highly populated, well resourced (financially and natural resources) first world country who did not have the rebuild their entire country after WWII.

Instead they got to build and sell the stuff to everyone else so they could rebuild. They got to invest in R&D, more infrastructure, more manufacturing.

Come the 1970s and the worlds reliance on the US started falling. They could manufacture at home , they had schools and hospitals, they had electricity, water, food, etc etc etc etc , They had the children of WWII being productive in the workforce, no longer orphans. Technology had reduced the costs for manufacturing and shipping. The Container ship has probably been one of the biggest factors.

Today its even more true, you can ship a container into the forrest and have a telephone exchange up and running for hundreds of people within a day or so.

Look at the Microwave oven, my first cost NZ$1200, they can now be found for less than $100.

In the 1960s the USA accounted for 60% of the worlds GDP, today its less than 20%.

The world no longer NEEDs the USA the same as it did in the 50's onwards. The USA was rolling in money selling stuff to the world, now the world makes its own stuff. Its not that manufacturing left the USA, its the customers, the 96% of people who are not US citizens no longer need to buy from the USA. And THAT is not going to change.

What has happened to the USA was destined to happen. Its like the kids leaving home. The USA just believes it is entitled to be the way it was.

Don't worry after WW3 they will be on exactly the opposite situation

TheLastTherapist:

 

 

 

US wages have been stagnant for forty years long before GFC. Likewise GFC wasn't what hollowed out manufacturing in the US.

 

 

 

That's an "impression" and common fallacy, not fact:

Of course the disproportionately higher increase at the top is visible, helped (IMO) by a somewhat greater social tolerance / expectation to display wealth if you've got it.

But it's not really true that the wages of the middle class have been stagnant. Coinciding with the increase in earnings has been a fall in some costs - manufactured goods, food - and an increase in other costs - healthcare and housing, education.

Edit to say that over that period ('79-'13) real GDP per capita increased by about 70%, so it's certainly true that the top quintile got more than their "fair share" of gain, the middle classes less.

sir1963:

 

TheLastTherapist:

 

Fred99:

 

The pain experienced by the US "working class" was an inevitable consequence of the GFC.   

 

...It freaking well worked - you'll find the strongest nationalist support amongst the "working class".  They're the Fox News audience - unfortunately it's the only voice they think they've got. 

 

 

US wages have been stagnant for forty years long before GFC. Likewise GFC wasn't what hollowed out manufacturing in the US.

 

I think you're dead right that they backed candidates that gave them a voice - Sanders got so much traction (despite less money) the only way to bench him was for superdelegates to break from their rank and file (Sanders had clear majority support from women under 30).

Republicans hated Trump too and again on a much less funded campaign he stomped their establishment candidates.

 

And yet post-election there's no acknowledgement from either party they were out of touch.

 

You'd think at the very least they'd say it was racism, sexism and being systematically impoverished for forty years.

 

 

Problem with Americans is that they have failed to figure out WHY they did so well in the 50s-70s. Its not as though they were great or any such bullsh!t.

 

Its because they were the only large, highly populated, well resourced (financially and natural resources) first world country who did not have the rebuild their entire country after WWII.

 

Instead they got to build and sell the stuff to everyone else so they could rebuild. They got to invest in R&D, more infrastructure, more manufacturing.

 

Come the 1970s and the worlds reliance on the US started falling. They could manufacture at home , they had schools and hospitals, they had electricity, water, food, etc etc etc etc , They had the children of WWII being productive in the workforce, no longer orphans. Technology had reduced the costs for manufacturing and shipping. The Container ship has probably been one of the biggest factors.

 

Today its even more true, you can ship a container into the forrest and have a telephone exchange up and running for hundreds of people within a day or so.

 

Look at the Microwave oven, my first cost NZ$1200, they can now be found for less than $100.

 

In the 1960s the USA accounted for 60% of the worlds GDP, today its less than 20%.

 

The world no longer NEEDs the USA the same as it did in the 50's onwards. The USA was rolling in money selling stuff to the world, now the world makes its own stuff. Its not that manufacturing left the USA, its the customers, the 96% of people who are not US citizens no longer need to buy from the USA. And THAT is not going to change.

 

 

 

What has happened to the USA was destined to happen. Its like the kids leaving home. The USA just believes it is entitled to be the way it was.

 

Could not agree more. 

Its the No.1 superpower, economically and militarily. It still is, just. Well, just economically. its now a big power amongst many other big powers. China, and Europe. India will go through a mini China development. 

IMHO having spent a lot of time there, it is like a grand house. Now, it hasn't been looked after, the infrastructure is poor and old. Water supply is a real issue. Making America great is a great idea. Sorting trade deficits os a great idea. Problem is they cannot do that. Its cheaper to import. They cannot revisit the 50's, they need to embrace the real world today and focus on what they can do better, and thats not manufacturing. Thats why Bunnings, and Walmart and The Warehouse is heavily imported stock. 

The USA needs to revisit its capabilities. And that is part of the world, not THE world.

Obama had a policy that chemical warfare was the red line. He never acted, and thus was termed feckless. The Syria issue  now, since the attacks by the US on Assad is big news. If this was Obama (and chemical attacks are not new for Assad), it would be news, but not big news, just more of the horror in Syria.

Unsure how it will pan out from here, its a bit like the Korean conflict, it cannot be won, and much more so as its not a two side war. Like most Middle East issues it cannot be won, whether that be on the front line of war or in the diplomacy. 

tdgeek:

Obama had a policy that chemical warfare was the red line. He never acted, and thus was termed feckless.

Ge0rge:

Geektastic:

 

Surprised that they did not also strike the runway surface to deny it's use.

 

Tomahawks aren't really the ideal weapon to do long term damage to a runway surface.

Sure. So use a different one. It's not like they couldn't rustle up half a dozen Paveways or something!

sir1963:

 

TheLastTherapist:

 

Fred99:

 

The pain experienced by the US "working class" was an inevitable consequence of the GFC.   

 

...It freaking well worked - you'll find the strongest nationalist support amongst the "working class".  They're the Fox News audience - unfortunately it's the only voice they think they've got. 

 

 

US wages have been stagnant for forty years long before GFC. Likewise GFC wasn't what hollowed out manufacturing in the US.

 

I think you're dead right that they backed candidates that gave them a voice - Sanders got so much traction (despite less money) the only way to bench him was for superdelegates to break from their rank and file (Sanders had clear majority support from women under 30).

Republicans hated Trump too and again on a much less funded campaign he stomped their establishment candidates.

 

And yet post-election there's no acknowledgement from either party they were out of touch.

 

You'd think at the very least they'd say it was racism, sexism and being systematically impoverished for forty years.

 

 

Problem with Americans is that they have failed to figure out WHY they did so well in the 50s-70s. Its not as though they were great or any such bullsh!t.

 

Its because they were the only large, highly populated, well resourced (financially and natural resources) first world country who did not have the rebuild their entire country after WWII.

 

Instead they got to build and sell the stuff to everyone else so they could rebuild. They got to invest in R&D, more infrastructure, more manufacturing.

 

Come the 1970s and the worlds reliance on the US started falling. They could manufacture at home , they had schools and hospitals, they had electricity, water, food, etc etc etc etc , They had the children of WWII being productive in the workforce, no longer orphans. Technology had reduced the costs for manufacturing and shipping. The Container ship has probably been one of the biggest factors.

 

Today its even more true, you can ship a container into the forrest and have a telephone exchange up and running for hundreds of people within a day or so.

 

Look at the Microwave oven, my first cost NZ$1200, they can now be found for less than $100.

 

In the 1960s the USA accounted for 60% of the worlds GDP, today its less than 20%.

 

The world no longer NEEDs the USA the same as it did in the 50's onwards. The USA was rolling in money selling stuff to the world, now the world makes its own stuff. Its not that manufacturing left the USA, its the customers, the 96% of people who are not US citizens no longer need to buy from the USA. And THAT is not going to change.

 

 

 

What has happened to the USA was destined to happen. Its like the kids leaving home. The USA just believes it is entitled to be the way it was.

 

This is very true - although, technically, the"children of WWII" were still orphans, productive in the workforce or not..!

It also partly explains Germany's industrial success, as NATO and BAOR supplied the majority of their defence needs post war, saving them from much of the expense necessary to do it themselves.

Good perspective piece on the missile strike.

@freitasm: Not sure if this long link will stuff up the layout.

Geektastic:

Ge0rge:

Geektastic:

Surprised that they did not also strike the runway surface to deny it's use.

Tomahawks aren't really the ideal weapon to do long term damage to a runway surface.

Sure. So use a different one. It's not like they couldn't rustle up half a dozen Paveways or something!

Rikkitic:

 

Good perspective piece on the missile strike.

 

@freitasm: Not sure if this long link will stuff up the layout. 

 

Thanks @gzt. Correct. It's always better to use the rich editor to select the words, click the link button and paste the link there.

Obviously if someone is on mobile then there's BBCode. 

For those using adblockers, there's no rich editor because the people maintaining the adblock list (a New Zealander no less) decided that Geekzone should have ALL scripts blocked, regardless if it's advertising or not.