NZ 2023 Election Thread

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#3129973 21-Sep-2023 07:16

gzt: I've managed to watch 10min of the Hipkins vs Luxon debate so far. Luxon was not doing well at all. I wonder how much that really matters.

Apparently, Labour caused all of our current issues, so it won't really matter. What was inherited, a couple of "things" that happened don't really figure that much. So we will vote in a couple of highly experienced and highly capable people that are "good with numbers" they told us

Im ordering my popcorn

sir1963

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#3129976 21-Sep-2023 07:19

tdgeek:

gzt: I've managed to watch 10min of the Hipkins vs Luxon debate so far. Luxon was not doing well at all. I wonder how much that really matters.

Apparently, Labour caused all of our current issues, so it won't really matter. What was inherited, a couple of "things" that happened don't really figure that much. So we will vote in a couple of highly experienced and highly capable people that are "good with numbers" they told us

Im ordering my popcorn

Thats is ALWAYS the mantra

"Fault of the last government"

tdgeek

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#3129978 21-Sep-2023 07:24

sir1963:

Thats is ALWAYS the mantra

"Fault of the last government"

Lol yep. Back in 2017 I posted here about what was being inherited and was cut down "you can't say that" I wonder what will happen post Oct 14 when nothing changes?

To be fair, inheriting crap is due to many past Govts over decades upon decades.

quickymart

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#3129997 21-Sep-2023 08:41

https://www.thepost.co.nz/a/nz-news/350074668/false-promises-cost-living-solutions do either of the big parties have any solutions to the cost-of-living crisis?

GV27

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#3130032 21-Sep-2023 10:02

sir1963:

Thats is ALWAYS the mantra

"Fault of the last government"

It's a bit of an insult when you sweep into power off the back of unrealistic and unworkable policies that you can't deliver and don't have much intention of doing so either.

Rikkitic

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#3130036 21-Sep-2023 10:11

GV27:

It's a bit of an insult when you sweep into power off the back of unrealistic and unworkable policies that you can't deliver and don't have much intention of doing so either.

It's a bit of an insult when you sweep into power off the back of what the other guys did wrong instead of what you can do right.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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GV27

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#3130038 21-Sep-2023 10:14

Rikkitic:

It's a bit of an insult when you sweep into power off the back of what the other guys did wrong instead of what you can do right.

This would be reasonable if Labour hadn't been using Kiwibuild as a platform to attack National's record on housing and trying to portray them as a do-nothing government in the lead-up to the election, only to then turn around and achieve even less.

Light rail. Kiwibuild. Emergency Housing. Healthcare. Education. Pick your poison.

The problem with promises is that at some point someone might expect you to keep them. However, you can just gaslight an entire population and have town hall resets or years of delivery (lmao) whenever you start to lose ground in polls and there'll always be people who think you shouldn't have to deliver what you actually campaigned on who will die in a ditch for you.

It's a great way to get elected but it's a pretty immoral way to run a country.

tdgeek

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#3130041 21-Sep-2023 10:22

GV27:

Light rail. Agree, but in fact no one seesm to want it now anyway

Kiwibuild. 100% agree

Emergency Housing. Unsure, I gather they are building more social housing than had been the case

Healthcare. This govt and everyone before it is to blame

Education. This govt and everyone before it is to blame

GV27

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#3130044 21-Sep-2023 10:27

Then look at the healthcare stats under this government (the ones they haven't stopped reporting on, anyway).

Then look at the truancy and polytech centralisation numbers under this government.

So far we've had "it's not as bad as you think", now we have "they inherited a bunch of problems and six years isn't soon enough to fix things that they're not showing any interest in actually fixing and the stuff that is actively getting worse" and I swear some people are about a week away from "you can't like, expect people to do things, man".

tdgeek

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#3130045 21-Sep-2023 10:29

Liking this

Christopher Luxon is talking about how National plans to increase the number of international students coming to this country.

Key proposals are:

Fast track visa processing for international students who pay an additional fee.
Increase the hours international students are able to work each week from 20 to 24.
Expand work rights for international students and their partners to make New Zealand a more attractive destination.
Diversify the countries Education New Zealand recruits international students from.

Disclosure: It will benefit our household GDP!

On a serious note, it's worth a lot of overseas money, we are effectively exporting education. Govts could clip those tickets to boost national education

sen8or

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#3130047 21-Sep-2023 10:34

Rikkitic:

GV27:

It's a bit of an insult when you sweep into power off the back of unrealistic and unworkable policies that you can't deliver and don't have much intention of doing so either.

It's a bit of an insult when you sweep into power off the back of what the other guys did wrong instead of what you can do right.

Both correct.

What was the saying in the dark knight- if you live long enough you'll become the villan (or words to that effect). It seems politics is much like that, come into power on the back of promises of greatness, leave when those promises don't come to light and the other party looks appealing because of their promises, rinse and repeat.

1 term is not enough to make a difference to anything. Unless you make a colossal screw up with the economy, chances of re-election are reasonable.

2 terms and the realities of your first term policies come home to roost. If you got them right to begin with, odds are you'll earn a third term, if you didn't, your toast.

3 terms and whatever changes made in terms 1 and 2 are now starting to become the norm, so much so that it may seem like you've gone stale with no new ideas. Achievements in term 1 are now irrelevant (if there were any) and phrases like "progressing towards" or similar get chopped down by an opposition tired of being on the wrong side of the house for 6+ years. Unless the economy is doing spectacularly well, chances of a 4th term are very low.

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tdgeek

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#3130049 21-Sep-2023 10:38

GV27:

Then look at the healthcare stats under this government (the ones they haven't stopped reporting on, anyway).

Then look at the truancy and polytech centralisation numbers under this government.

So far we've had "it's not as bad as you think", now we have "they inherited a bunch of problems and six years isn't soon enough to fix things that they're not showing any interest in actually fixing and the stuff that is actively getting worse" and I swear some people are about a week away from "you can't like, expect people to do things, man".

I dont recall inferring "it's not as bad as you think"

Truancy, did this Govt cause it? Same for ram raids. Same for housing issues that push people to cars and tents

What causes these and other issues has been growing over time, slowly building up. When Bill English was questioned about the housing crisis, he said nothing and smiled. Points is, none of this is new, its decades old. But if its felt that its tuned to custard under "this" government, ok

tdgeek

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#3130050 21-Sep-2023 10:43

Its clear we need more taxaxtion , as that revenue stream just doesnt cut it. But to get votes we cut taxes, which makes it even more unnaffordable for NZ to work on these sectors. That is the conundrum

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#3130051 21-Sep-2023 10:44

This goes back to putting pressure on housing market again, and we do allow long term students to buy houses,
Then gets into student's families seeking to speculate in New Zealand housing market or get their money into a safer place.
In some places they buy unfinished concrete boxes in the sky to park money, and expectation on 20% gain in on-sell later.

Plus you may remember the many 'educational institutes' selling dubious management courses where attendance and exams somewhat notional.
As long as money coming in.

Maybe it fed market of liquorstores where everyone is a manager on every street corner.

We have had a representative of immigration consultants, I think it was someone from Malcom Consultants,
interviewed by news saying that we implicitly give students expectation of citizenship this way. An obligation.

We have had so much problem with Australia on NZers rights there 'once free and easy' due to them losing confidence in what we were doing.

tdgeek

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#3130055 21-Sep-2023 10:55

ezbee:

This goes back to putting pressure on housing market again, and we do allow long term students to buy houses,
Then gets into student's families seeking to speculate in New Zealand housing market or get their money into a safer place.
In some places they buy unfinished concrete boxes in the sky to park money, and expectation on 20% gain in on-sell later.

Plus you may remember the many 'educational institutes' selling dubious management courses where attendance and exams somewhat notional.
As long as money coming in.

Maybe it fed market of liquorstores where everyone is a manager on every street corner.

We have had a representative of immigration consultants, I think it was someone from Malcom Consultants,
interviewed by news saying that we implicitly give students expectation of citizenship this way. An obligation.

We have had so much problem with Australia on NZers rights there 'once free and easy' due to them losing confidence in what we were doing.

All good points, and yes some were dodgy. But the annual (I think) examinations they were put to did shut them down. Adhering to certification is strict. Yes, Ive seen kids in flash houses with 3 items of furniture. But if we can sell education and prioritise the skills we need, thats a relatively fast track way to get these skills. As for housing, NZ needs to build build build, irregardless of students staying here. Foreigners buying up, no way that should be allowed to happen, we have already seen the auctions where Kiwi salaried buyers cannot compete with foreign money. Ive always had a view that if you wish to move to NZ, you need to have skills we want, great, but you must build your house, so you dont solve one problem but create another

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