Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

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Awrrr
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#1917726 12-Dec-2017 21:48

networkn:

JA's threats to play tit for tat with Australia are insane. We have a lot more to lose in playing chicken with Australia. We have enjoyed a good relationship with Australia over the past nine years, so far I would not say she has done a thing to enhance it.

I'm guessing this is more "acceptable learning on the job"?

Can't speak for on the job learning but I do wonder about that 'good relationship with Australia'. Is that the one where they have systematically denied us basic rights to health care, education, social welfare support, and many other things for which we have paid the same taxes as Aussies? Or maybe the right to gain citizenship in a country we have lived in nearly all our lives? Or the right not to be deported from that country because we happened to be born in New Zealand, though we never actually lived here? Ozzie officialdom has been systematically crapping on us since 1994 so it must be especially reassuring that we have such a 'good relationship'.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

networkn

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#1917731 12-Dec-2017 22:10

Rikkitic:

networkn:

JA's threats to play tit for tat with Australia are insane. We have a lot more to lose in playing chicken with Australia. We have enjoyed a good relationship with Australia over the past nine years, so far I would not say she has done a thing to enhance it.

I'm guessing this is more "acceptable learning on the job"?

Can't speak for on the job learning but I do wonder about that 'good relationship with Australia'. Is that the one where they have systematically denied us basic rights to health care, education, social welfare support, and many other things for which we have paid the same taxes as Aussies? Or maybe the right to gain citizenship in a country we have lived in nearly all our lives? Or the right not to be deported from that country because we happened to be born in New Zealand, though we never actually lived here? Ozzie officialdom has been systematically crapping on us since 1994 so it must be especially reassuring that we have such a 'good relationship'.

If that's what happens when we are on good terms with Australia (and I actually dispute some of those claims as sensationalist but am too tired to get into it with you), what happens when Labour tries to flex their non-existent muscles and alienates us further?

If you want to have leverage in Australia, you need to be to offer them something. What is it you feel that Australia actually gets from NZ (that they would give a hoot if they lost)?

Rikkitic

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#1917733 12-Dec-2017 22:14

networkn:

If you want to have leverage in Australia, you need to be to offer them something. What is it you feel that Australia actually gets from NZ (that they would give a hoot if they lost)?

Our winning personalities and JA's 1,000 watt smile.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

networkn

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#1917737 12-Dec-2017 22:21

Rikkitic:

networkn:

If you want to have leverage in Australia, you need to be to offer them something. What is it you feel that Australia actually gets from NZ (that they would give a hoot if they lost)?

Our winning personalities and JA's 1,000 watt smile.

I'd suggest both are overrated by about 1000x. Might surprise you to know Australians don't love either.

Maybe you could offer them your sense of humour ? :)

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#1917739 12-Dec-2017 22:25

networkn:

tdgeek:

The election debates had quick fire basic questions, including the average wage I recall. Most of them got most wrong, or were sorta closest almost. I dint read much into any of that. They all should have known more, but as one of them stated, they deal on a higher level than the many intricate facts and figures.

Come on! What is more basic than knowing the average wage as the employment minister? I don't consider it intricate facts and figures. I'd imagine this should be a banner on your wall, because it's a measure of your success and or failure, along with unemployment rate and the minimum wage.

It's disgraceful he didn't know it.

It's hard not to feel your recent comments aren't at least a little bit confirmation bias. Even hardcore Labour supporters I know are cringing and facepalming right now.

Labours slogan should actually have been "Let's Google this!" :) Let's hope the internet doesn't go down at the beehive or Labour won't know how to do anything :)

You remind me of a joke that was doing the rounds back in 97 when Tony Blair got elected. He had a very dictatorial spin doctor called Alistair Campbell running things, who was reputed to have won the election by exercising an iron grip on MP's and ensuring that they stayed 'on message' at all times. That's the context - here's the joke.

Labour MP goes for a haircut and sits down in the chair, wearing headphones.

"Would you mind taking off the headphones?" said the stylist.

"Sorry - I can't. Alistair says we mustn't ever do so."

After trying to work around the headphones the stylist decides that he cannot complete the job, so persuades the MP to remove them.

Suddenly, the MP goes blue and makes choking noises, before collapsing onto the floor and dying.

Once the Police and ambulance people have been and gone, the stylist is just trying up and he spots the MP's iPod with the headphones.

"I wonder what he was listening to that was so important?"

Picking up the headphones, he listens and is surprised to hear Alistair Campbell's voice

"breathe in.....breathe out.....breathe in....breathe out"

networkn

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#1917741 12-Dec-2017 22:27

I've heard an almost identical one but Blondes were the target.

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MikeB4

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#1917742 12-Dec-2017 22:29

Pumpedd:
MikeB4:

its all getting tedious, i think folks will find mistakes on a blank page

I actually thought you were bowing out of this topic????

Damn, the memo must have gone into my spam folder

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

blakamin

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#1917746 12-Dec-2017 22:41

Rikkitic:

Is that the one where they have systematically denied us basic rights to health care, education, social welfare support, and many other things for which we have paid the same taxes as Aussies? Or maybe the right to gain citizenship in a country we have lived in nearly all our lives? Or the right not to be deported from that country because we happened to be born in New Zealand, though we never actually lived here? Ozzie officialdom has been systematically crapping on us since 1994 so it must be especially reassuring that we have such a 'good relationship'.

You know why that happened don't you?

How many people left NZ in the 70-90s to move to Oz with no job or even a prospect of a job? I'll give you a hint... It went from 80,000 in 71 to 177,000 in 81.... Before 81 you didn't even need a passport.

So more than the population of Wellington.

Who was paying for them? It certainly wasn't NZ..

And BS you don't get health care and education in Australia. That's an outright lie!

Pumpedd

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#1917758 12-Dec-2017 23:48

MikeB4:
Pumpedd:

MikeB4:

its all getting tedious, i think folks will find mistakes on a blank page

I actually thought you were bowing out of this topic????

Damn, the memo must have gone into my spam folder

haha

tdgeek

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#1917783 13-Dec-2017 07:10

networkn:

tdgeek:

The election debates had quick fire basic questions, including the average wage I recall. Most of them got most wrong, or were sorta closest almost. I dint read much into any of that. They all should have known more, but as one of them stated, they deal on a higher level than the many intricate facts and figures.

Come on! What is more basic than knowing the average wage as the employment minister? I don't consider it intricate facts and figures. I'd imagine this should be a banner on your wall, because it's a measure of your success and or failure, along with unemployment rate and the minimum wage.

It's disgraceful he didn't know it.

It's hard not to feel your recent comments aren't at least a little bit confirmation bias. Even hardcore Labour supporters I know are cringing and facepalming right now.

Labours slogan should actually have been "Let's Google this!" :) Let's hope the internet doesn't go down at the beehive or Labour won't know how to do anything :)

I don't really disagree. but did you watch the quiz on the debates, they all knew bugger all. Yes, he/she should have known the figure but so should they all on the debates, that was all simple basic stuff, and I am sure the same question was on that too. It also wasnt known

tdgeek

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#1917785 13-Dec-2017 07:14

networkn:

tdgeek:

The election debates had quick fire basic questions, including the average wage I recall. Most of them got most wrong, or were sorta closest almost. I dint read much into any of that. They all should have known more, but as one of them stated, they deal on a higher level than the many intricate facts and figures.

Come on! What is more basic than knowing the average wage as the employment minister? I don't consider it intricate facts and figures. I'd imagine this should be a banner on your wall, because it's a measure of your success and or failure, along with unemployment rate and the minimum wage.

It's disgraceful he didn't know it.

It's hard not to feel your recent comments aren't at least a little bit confirmation bias. Even hardcore Labour supporters I know are cringing and facepalming right now.

Labours slogan should actually have been "Let's Google this!" :) Let's hope the internet doesn't go down at the beehive or Labour won't know how to do anything :)

Off course I have a bias, but its pretty mild. Compared to some here :-) its pretty really darn, wildy mild!

TBH on the quiz I was a bit shocked, but I think it was Bill that said he doesnt operate at that level

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tdgeek

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#1917786 13-Dec-2017 07:17

Pumpedd:

networkn:

Our esteemed leader has now drawn the unwanted and negative attention from the Deputy Prime Minister of Australia:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11958367

Awesome work JA. Not.

I have said it before...she should have better things to do. Surely she would have learned after what Hipkins did Australia doesnt want NZ interfering. She is mentioning Manus every time an opportunity exists.

Rightly or wrong I dont want the refugees here....

NZ doesnt want interfering either, but its big in insurace, finance and bank sectors. Reported to cause a lot of tension. Reported that they prefer we dont regulate these sectors as Oz prefers to do it from their end. Makes Hipkins(who was correct, but shouldnt have) and Manus (a human rights issue) very small issues. Unless we are ok to be pushed around by Big Brother

Always two sides, and thats not just at Macca's

Fred99

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#1917827 13-Dec-2017 08:50

blakamin:

How many people left NZ in the 70-90s to move to Oz with no job or even a prospect of a job? I'll give you a hint... It went from 80,000 in 71 to 177,000 in 81.... Before 81 you didn't even need a passport.

Wait. I moved to Aus in the '80s - with no pre-arranged job to go to. That (lack of a job before arriving) took a few minutes to sort out.
I'm absolutely sure that it was widely accepted that Kiwis in Aus earned more on average than Aussies, had much lower unemployment, under-represented in crime stats, etc.

What happened in the early '90s was mishandled on both sides of the Tasman. It was politically expedient at the time for Howard to play the nationalist xenophobic game, and it was politically naive for NZ to not accept that under weak (er than Aus) NZ immigration requirements, a large number of immigrants (who wouldn't have met Aus stricter standards) were using NZ as a back-door to Australia.

The whole thing's been a bloody shame IMO - it should never have happened the way it has. But it was never as simple as just the numbers of NZers moving across the Tasman.

networkn

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#1918988 13-Dec-2017 12:29

tdgeek:

NZ doesnt want interfering either, but its big in insurace, finance and bank sectors. Reported to cause a lot of tension. Reported that they prefer we dont regulate these sectors as Oz prefers to do it from their end. Makes Hipkins(who was correct, but shouldnt have) and Manus (a human rights issue) very small issues. Unless we are ok to be pushed around by Big Brother

Always two sides, and thats not just at Macca's

Without Australia "Interfering" in NZ, NZ would really struggle. Without NZ "interfreing" in Australia, Australia would have one less mosquito buzzing in their ear.

I still don't understand your "standing our ground" or "being pushed around" statement? How is JA showing that thing with Manus? She has no right to stand her ground in an Australian issue. She should/could stand her ground in things like better reciprocal healthcare or education for NZ'rs. because we are actually involved, but in the Manus thing, she stuck her nose in where it wasn't wanted, more than once, and it's making her look silly, not staunch. I don't actually believe she gives a toss about it, but I think she knows that Kiwi's are on the whole a fairly compassionate group, and she might get a popularity bump as a result. Cynical I am sure you will accuse me of being.

She has made some massive promises, I doubt she will keep 50% of them, it's bordering on negligence to be giving that a second thought instead of focusing all her attention on her key legislation.

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#1919019 13-Dec-2017 13:00

networkn:

tdgeek:

NZ doesnt want interfering either, but its big in insurace, finance and bank sectors. Reported to cause a lot of tension. Reported that they prefer we dont regulate these sectors as Oz prefers to do it from their end. Makes Hipkins(who was correct, but shouldnt have) and Manus (a human rights issue) very small issues. Unless we are ok to be pushed around by Big Brother

Always two sides, and thats not just at Macca's

Without Australia "Interfering" in NZ, NZ would really struggle. Without NZ "interfreing" in Australia, Australia would have one less mosquito buzzing in their ear.

I still don't understand your "standing our ground" or "being pushed around" statement? How is JA showing that thing with Manus? She has no right to stand her ground in an Australian issue. She should/could stand her ground in things like better reciprocal healthcare or education for NZ'rs. because we are actually involved, but in the Manus thing, she stuck her nose in where it wasn't wanted, more than once, and it's making her look silly, not staunch. I don't actually believe she gives a toss about it, but I think she knows that Kiwi's are on the whole a fairly compassionate group, and she might get a popularity bump as a result. Cynical I am sure you will accuse me of being.

She has made some massive promises, I doubt she will keep 50% of them, it's bordering on negligence to be giving that a second thought instead of focusing all her attention on her key legislation.

IMO the political relationship isn't great, and hasn't been. Bill E's comments show that in many ways. Financially, we dont rate, and they want us to allow them to regulate these sectors here. Pervasive influence as Bill said. I think that is the issue for me. Bill and John, and Gerrys comments also clearly show its a "dont upset them" mentality. I feel its good to just show we aint gonna be treated like nothing, we have a voice, if we see a need to show it, we will, and in the interim, yes, we will continue to follow you like sheep. Manus is a human rights issue, thats worth a voice. She said her pieces a few times, and thats over, been ages actually. She got nowhere with evening out some inequalities for kiwis over there, thats also gone. So, no damage done, we will pander to you, but not all the time we arent that weak anymore. Thats my take.

Staunch? Hmm, I see it more like, not as meek.

She has made massive promises, but so had National, just not as many. They were to spend big, but not as big. Its not like all the dollars are on the table lets go for it. Robertson has already stated that not everything can happen at once, it will be spread, priorities will take place, so my take on that is keen to get on with it, but be sensible as well. But yes, more will be spent. I see the teacher plan was out today, haven't read it yet.

In short, I see the talks over there, plus Manus as smaller issues, been and gone. I also feel that National is quite quiet now. There is an article of some negative comment on any new news from Labour, thats to be expected, but the rush of that has slowed. Nikki Kaye attacked over the NS, so she sees alone on that.

This Labour team "appears" to be on track after early stumbles. Things are being done, and thats all I wanted myself.

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