Chris Hipkins, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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Forums › Politics › Chris Hipkins, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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#3103092 12-Jul-2023 11:28

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132531178/hipkins-rules-out-wealth-and-capital-gains-tax--end-of-story

No to wealth and CGT, which is an interesting strong move to signal to the centre that TPM and the Greens won't get flagship concessions out of Hipkins post-election.

Nothing specific here about a land tax, however, which is the only real remaining source of revenue if any meaningful tax reform is on the cards.

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#3103099 12-Jul-2023 11:34

GV27:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132531178/hipkins-rules-out-wealth-and-capital-gains-tax--end-of-story

No to wealth and CGT, which is an interesting strong move to signal to the centre that TPM and the Greens won't get flagship concessions out of Hipkins post-election.

Nothing specific here about a land tax, however, which is the only real remaining source of revenue if any meaningful tax reform is on the cards.

He is probably (legitimately) concerned about capital wealth flight from NZ

GV27

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#3103103 12-Jul-2023 11:36

Interestingly there was an admission in there that Labour had a wealth tax as part of their work programme for the Budget but Hipkins nixed it.

So National was right - there was work in the background to extract more from Kiwis at a time when living costs were spiraling. I can't put into words how angry that makes me, but how unsurprised I am.

There is clearly some pretty major factions in the Labour cabinet - the Maori Caucus, a radical wing who want to tax everything that moves regardless of whether they can use that money to ever get anything done and a moderate liberal wing which is gradually losing control of the agenda.

We haven't heard much from Grant Robertson lately. I think we now know why.

Rikkitic

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#3103130 12-Jul-2023 12:25

GV27:

So National was right - there was work in the background to extract more from Kiwis at a time when living costs were spiraling. I can't put into words how angry that makes me, but how unsurprised I am.

I don't understand your anger about something that was considered and then rejected. Isn't that what you want? Isn't politics about considering everything and gradually whittling away the crazy stuff?

Let's ban all ICE machines. What, that would kill the economy and cause mass starvation? Okay, let's not do it. Idea considered and rejected. What's next?

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GV27

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#3103138 12-Jul-2023 12:45

Rikkitic:

I don't understand your anger about something that was considered and then rejected. Isn't that what you want? Isn't politics about considering everything and gradually whittling away the crazy stuff?

Let's ban all ICE machines. What, that would kill the economy and cause mass starvation? Okay, let's not do it. Idea considered and rejected. What's next?

You can decide not to do something on a whim after no real commitment. You can stick it in a work program and have a bunch of officials spend a bunch of time and ultimately money on it.

One of these is different to the other for reasons I'm sure you can understand.

The anger is because a government that can't spend a tax take that's already spiked in an effective way trying to extract more during a living cost crisis is supremely arrogant and out of touch, after sitting back when it could have adjusted tax brackets for year-on-year inflation at any point in the last five years, which it rejected and cynically labelled as a 'tax cut'.

gzt

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#3103141 12-Jul-2023 12:50

GV27: Interestingly there was an admission in there that Labour had a wealth tax as part of their work programme for the Budget but Hipkins nixed it.

So National was right - there was work in the background to extract more from Kiwis at a time when living costs were spiraling. I can't put into words how angry that makes me, but how unsurprised I am.

I'm not sure why that should have made you angry related to struggling kiwis - assuming the threshold under consideration was necessarily high.

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GV27

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#3103144 12-Jul-2023 12:58

gzt:

I'm not sure why that should have made you angry related to struggling kiwis - assuming the threshold under consideration was necessarily high.

I've been told there's no ambulances free for my kid during a medical event. I've waited hours in an ED with my son when he's sick. So yea, I reserve the right to be angry at a government presiding over a collapse of the civil service that thinks this is its biggest priority as opposed to actually to doing something about the decline in real services, other than gaslighting the general population and getting rid of statistics and measures that make it look bad.

sen8or

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#3103251 12-Jul-2023 15:33

Labour will always work on more / cleverer ways to extract money "from the rich", thats what they do, so to hear that they were working on a wealth / CG tax is really not surprising in the least.

Kudos for ruling it out, sort of.

His wording is pretty specific "under a Govt I lead", leaving the door slightly ajar for a leadership change to bring in an unpopular policy if Labour is re-elected. Granted, thats a bit of a stretch of his words (and there is no indications that his leadership will be challenged), but stranger things have happened in politics.

Is going to be an interesting 3 months heading into the election.

Labour has to hope there are no more skeletons in the closet and their MPs are on their best behaviour....

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#3103391 12-Jul-2023 17:56

sen8or:

Is going to be an interesting 3 months heading into the election.

Labour has to hope there are no more skeletons in the closet and their MPs are on their best behaviour....

100%, its not like any other Kiwi election. The latter is true, but both parties have suffered on that. You can probably ignore everything, and focus on skeletons from either party in the 3 weeks before the election.

Bluntj

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#3103467 12-Jul-2023 21:45

sen8or:

Labour will always work on more / cleverer ways to extract money "from the rich", thats what they do, so to hear that they were working on a wealth / CG tax is really not surprising in the least.

Kudos for ruling it out, sort of.

His wording is pretty specific "under a Govt I lead", leaving the door slightly ajar for a leadership change to bring in an unpopular policy if Labour is re-elected. Granted, thats a bit of a stretch of his words (and there is no indications that his leadership will be challenged), but stranger things have happened in politics.

Is going to be an interesting 3 months heading into the election.

Labour has to hope there are no more skeletons in the closet and their MPs are on their best behaviour....

They arent getting the money from the rich and I doubt they ever will. The money is all coming from borrowing and middle income NZers due to tax rate creep.

quickymart

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#3103509 13-Jul-2023 08:06

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2023/07/13/why-the-chippy-vs-luxon-tv-debates-will-be-so-important-this-election/ Bomber analyses the debate and the skills of each candidate.

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sen8or

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#3103512 13-Jul-2023 08:16

Bluntj:

sen8or:

Labour will always work on more / cleverer ways to extract money "from the rich", thats what they do, so to hear that they were working on a wealth / CG tax is really not surprising in the least.

Kudos for ruling it out, sort of.

His wording is pretty specific "under a Govt I lead", leaving the door slightly ajar for a leadership change to bring in an unpopular policy if Labour is re-elected. Granted, thats a bit of a stretch of his words (and there is no indications that his leadership will be challenged), but stranger things have happened in politics.

Is going to be an interesting 3 months heading into the election.

Labour has to hope there are no more skeletons in the closet and their MPs are on their best behaviour....

They arent getting the money from the rich and I doubt they ever will. The money is all coming from borrowing and middle income NZers due to tax rate creep.

Except their definition of rich and most peoples definition of rich is vastly different. Look at the tax brackets, you only have to be on $70k to be in the 2nd highest bracket, you must be rich. They also manipulated the definition of income to paint the picture they wanted with their wealth review to garner support from the masses against the absolute top 1% of the 1% top wealth holders.

GV27

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#3103520 13-Jul-2023 08:30

sen8or:

Except their definition of rich and most peoples definition of rich is vastly different. Look at the tax brackets, you only have to be on $70k to be in the 2nd highest bracket, you must be rich. They also manipulated the definition of income to paint the picture they wanted with their wealth review to garner support from the masses against the absolute top 1% of the 1% top wealth holders.

Let's not forget the assurances that the research wasn't being done to drive specific policy, when it turns out there was in fact specific policy being drafted the whole time.

sen8or

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#3103527 13-Jul-2023 08:59

quickymart:

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2023/07/13/why-the-chippy-vs-luxon-tv-debates-will-be-so-important-this-election/ Bomber analyses the debate and the skills of each candidate.

Putting aside the tone of the article, which is about as neutral as an Aussie cricket commentator, some of the points are quite valid. Luxon will not win a debate against Hipkins if he tries to go head to head. Hipkins has too many political years under his belt and Luxon's "I'm not a politician" stance won't cut it.

GV27

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#3103529 13-Jul-2023 09:08

sen8or:

Putting aside the tone of the article, which is about as neutral as an Aussie cricket commentator, some of the points are quite valid. Luxon will not win a debate against Hipkins if he tries to go head to head. Hipkins has too many political years under his belt and Luxon's "I'm not a politician" stance won't cut it.

Hipkins is in the position that Ardern should have been in for the 2020 Election. Scandals, no real runs on the board, fraying public services and promises that were abandoned because they weren't realistic or political suicide.

Were it not for Covid, I'm not sure Ardern would have had it her own way against Bridges, even though she would have been far superior on paper in a debate environment.

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