Our new coalition government.

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774 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#2143365 11-Dec-2018 14:20

tdgeek:

There is a 2017 Election Policy, we have budgets annually, thats what they promise to do, and what is being spent on that. When a budget is created, based on policy, thats the financial spending nailed down. Its a public forum being in politics, they will be accountable.

Perhaps they will be held accountable. Who knows? Many people seem prepared to forgive an awful lot at the moment.

Here's another case in point - Immigration.

What was Labour's 2017 Election Policy on immigration?

In total, these changes are estimated to reduce net migration by 20,000-30,000

What was NZ First's policy?

Reduce immigration to 10,000 people a year

Yet only a year into their first term, they've both signalled that they are likely to sign NZ up to the UN global migration pact.

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/377799/sovereignty-concerns-shroud-nz-s-bid-to-sign-un-migration-pact

On the surface (and we're only really scratching the surface of this because it is only very recently getting any coverage) this agreement works directly against the principles that both parties campaigned on.

GV27

5896 posts

Uber Geek

#2143368 11-Dec-2018 14:21

For what's worth, RONS 2 was garbage.

Their refusal to acknowledge Auckland issues of both housing and transport is what cost them the election.

What's even more frustrating is if they'd said "Yea, Auckland does need these massive projects, but who do you trust to deliver them? Our proven and steady financial hand or Labour with their absolutely massive lolly scramble" then they would have waltzed in.

They couldn't even get to the point where they accepted there was actually a problem in Auckland that couldn't be fixed by *checks campaign promises* The Mill Rd project and the massively overblown East-West Link.

Man was that uninspiring.

Bluntj

556 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2143369 11-Dec-2018 14:24

Rikkitic:

networkn:

Not for nothing, but National were *also* prepared to spend money to fix these issues, and my bet is they would have done a better job of it.

I don't want to get into a shouting match with you but I just can't let this go. I don't doubt National was prepared to spend some money on some things that couldn't be avoided, but my recollection is that their big idea was to throw most of it at 'roads of national significance', at least one for every region. There are different ways of looking at this, depending on your philosophical viewpoint. For example, it can be argued that more and better roads are a good thing if traffic jams are hurting economic performance. But it can also be argued that this is a short-sighted dead-end policy if better public transport is the only viable long-term solution. Who is wasting money then?

More roads may be welcomed by the solitary occupants of executive sedans cruising to their work in air-conditioned comfort, but they don't do much for hungry children and an overburdened health care system and those without work at all. I believe National's priorities are wrong and that is why I would never vote for them.

I am not entirely sure we are talking MORE roads, but rather making the ones we have that were built and designed for a far different NZ than we have now. It was fine to have 2 laned SH's when our population was a couple of million and the car numbers were a fraction of what they are now. Truck numbers have also increased by huge volumes and this number will never decrease.

Shame on the current Government for stopping this 4 laning of SH1 program when it was self funding. I mean they only do portions at a time and dont start the next portion until the previous one was complete.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
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#2143409 11-Dec-2018 14:47

Predictable responses. The farce is strong with these ones.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Reciprocity

169 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#2143425 11-Dec-2018 15:14

Rikkitic:
Predictable responses. The farce is strong with these ones.

And your post is 100% ad hominem attack and 0% contribution to the discussion.

MikeB4

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#2143473 11-Dec-2018 16:26

The Coalitions decisions regarding roading is baffling at best but more accurately inept. An example stage three of the Kapiti expressway was originally planned as a four lane extension Otaki to Levin replacing a very high accident rate road. The Coalition wants this reduced to Two lanes opposing with a wire medium barrier between. A monumental waste of time and money that will need to be redone in the near future probably by their replacements in Parliament. There is zero logic to their mindset and will no doubt continue the carnage caused by that stretch of road.

wsnz

649 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2143492 11-Dec-2018 16:39

MikeB4:

The Coalitions decisions regarding roading is baffling at best but more accurately inept. An example stage three of the Kapiti expressway was originally planned as a four lane extension Otaki to Levin replacing a very high accident rate road. The Coalition wants this reduced to Two lanes opposing with a wire medium barrier between. A monumental waste of time and money that will need to be redone in the near future probably by their replacements in Parliament. There is zero logic to their mindset and will no doubt continue the carnage caused by that stretch of road.

Part of this is the NZTA's current methodology of improving safety. There are large swathes of the country where multi-lane roads are being reduced to single lanes with wire median barriers and lowered (usually 80Kph) speed limits. The NZTA's stated reasoning is that the provision of multiple lanes increases tendency to speed. Round-a-bouts on highways are another feature designed to lower speed and hence injury crash rates.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

tdgeek

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#2143525 11-Dec-2018 18:08

6FIEND:

tdgeek:

There is a 2017 Election Policy, we have budgets annually, thats what they promise to do, and what is being spent on that. When a budget is created, based on policy, thats the financial spending nailed down. Its a public forum being in politics, they will be accountable.

Perhaps they will be held accountable. Who knows? Many people seem prepared to forgive an awful lot at the moment.

Here's another case in point - Immigration.

What was Labour's 2017 Election Policy on immigration?

In total, these changes are estimated to reduce net migration by 20,000-30,000

What was NZ First's policy?

Reduce immigration to 10,000 people a year

Yet only a year into their first term, they've both signalled that they are likely to sign NZ up to the UN global migration pact.

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/377799/sovereignty-concerns-shroud-nz-s-bid-to-sign-un-migration-pact

On the surface (and we're only really scratching the surface of this because it is only very recently getting any coverage) this agreement works directly against the principles that both parties campaigned on.

I like Labours Immigration Policy. It stops immigration from education visa holders getting a Polytech piece of paper, a low paying job, the getting PR, and bringing the parents over. It allows that for higher education, and desired skills. Not a lot to dislike in my opinion. Peters wants less, he wont get it. Like any coalition there are compromises, so it avoids radical changes. A more conservative version of a liberal Government. I have always favoured immigration as we are too small, we can get better economies of scale to produce more goods here if we were bigger. The issue with immigration is that its been very high. We haven't catered for that with housing, roading, and education and health. If we could remove two years immigration next Friday, that in itself would solve a lot of our problems, by reducing the drain on these sectors. Even if it dropped to 20,000 thats probably 5000 homes that have to be built annually without making a dent in todays situation. In any case these immigrants, many of them cannot afford to build, they will rent or buy, more demand.

I watched Mike Hoskings interviewing JA, the Immigration Pact was part of it. Labour says it doesnt affect sovereignty, i.e. we can control our borders. There is a small amount of doubt to be clarified, but she said hand on heart they wont sign it if we cannot control our immigration policy. Or they might sign it, and not comply in that area, which it can as its not binding on signatories.

I dont see any issues here

tdgeek

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#2143527 11-Dec-2018 18:11

MikeB4:

The Coalitions decisions regarding roading is baffling at best but more accurately inept. An example stage three of the Kapiti expressway was originally planned as a four lane extension Otaki to Levin replacing a very high accident rate road. The Coalition wants this reduced to Two lanes opposing with a wire medium barrier between. A monumental waste of time and money that will need to be redone in the near future probably by their replacements in Parliament. There is zero logic to their mindset and will no doubt continue the carnage caused by that stretch of road.

This thread has already shown up other roading that needs to happen. Shows how bad its been let go. From what I read, the 2 lane issue allows for 4 lanes later, so its not being redone. It would be more costly in the long run, but if we made each new road capable for the very very long term that in itself is a lot of work and money, and more so, time, it would never finish.

MikeB4

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#2143548 11-Dec-2018 19:14

tdgeek:

MikeB4:

The Coalitions decisions regarding roading is baffling at best but more accurately inept. An example stage three of the Kapiti expressway was originally planned as a four lane extension Otaki to Levin replacing a very high accident rate road. The Coalition wants this reduced to Two lanes opposing with a wire medium barrier between. A monumental waste of time and money that will need to be redone in the near future probably by their replacements in Parliament. There is zero logic to their mindset and will no doubt continue the carnage caused by that stretch of road.

This thread has already shown up other roading that needs to happen. Shows how bad its been let go. From what I read, the 2 lane issue allows for 4 lanes later, so its not being redone. It would be more costly in the long run, but if we made each new road capable for the very very long term that in itself is a lot of work and money, and more so, time, it would never finish.

NZTA's original plan was a four lane road, the two lane is a compromise due to the coalition saying they wont fund it at four lanes. It is a seriously dumb decision. It will create a bottle neck and long tail backs and all the risks that go wth that.

I am very pleased that Transmission Gully got well and truly under way before the election as these guys would have cancelled the project.

Bluntj

556 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2143574 11-Dec-2018 20:23

Apparently the Americans that were camped in Kapiti during parts of WW2 wanted to build a road through Transmission Gully. If true that road has been on the go for a long time.

MikeB4

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#2143582 11-Dec-2018 20:35

Bluntj:

Apparently the Americans that were camped in Kapiti during parts of WW2 wanted to build a road through Transmission Gully. If true that road has been on the go for a long time.

That is an absolutely debunked urban legend.

tdgeek

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#2143584 11-Dec-2018 20:48

MikeB4:

NZTA's original plan was a four lane road, the two lane is a compromise due to the coalition saying they wont fund it at four lanes. It is a seriously dumb decision. It will create a bottle neck and long tail backs and all the risks that go wth that.

Understood, now you just need to decide what other roads will be delayed to cater for your upgrade.

MikeB4

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#2143754 12-Dec-2018 07:37

So the Air NZ strike is now three days. Gee we really have boarded a TARDIS and gone back to the 70s and 80s. Not a lot coming from the Beehive, Jacinda has probably been counselled by Helen not do anything because New Zealand RS should not be wasting their money on travel and fun.

tdgeek

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#2143759 12-Dec-2018 07:52

MikeB4: So the Air NZ strike is now three days. Gee we really have boarded a TARDIS and gone back to the 70s and 80s. Not a lot coming from the Beehive, Jacinda has probably been counselled by Helen not do anything because New Zealand RS should not be wasting their money on travel and fun.

What do we do? Tell the teachers and the nurses and these workers to put up with it as there is no money? Yes, that worked for 9 years, another 9? Its true that the Unions now seen empowered, but its also true that many seem to blame Labour for the strikes and completely ignore the reasons for the strike, reasons that heavily pre date this Govt. Short sighted. Lets ignore the past and the reasons that go with it, and just focus on today. The transport issue is exactly the same. No matter who is in Govt, or what reasons we allow that its fallen behind, we seem to prefer to ignore all that and want it done now, all of it.

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