They lost the war on drugs

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#1524268 1-Apr-2016 20:13

(Late to the discussion.)

Marijuana is just a drug. Like any drug we humans have invented or discovered, it has both positive effects and negative effects.

The legal prescription drugs that your doctor doles out also have positive and negative effects.

I think the key is to know what you're getting in to.

BTW, I've never tried marijuana as I don't smoke and have no interest in smoking anything. NOT because it's illegal.

gzt

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#1524385 2-Apr-2016 01:05

I saw an item on one of the NZ police reality shows last year:

An officer is called to a noisy domestic in South Auckland. Officer arrives at the address. It is quiet.

He smells marijuana, guesses it comes from a neighbouring property, knocks on that door instead.

Asks the resident if he was smoking any marijuana. Resident says no. Officer asks if resident has any marijuana on the property. Resident says no, only some utensils. Officer asks ok can you show me those. Resident says yep come in they are under the sink. Officer comes out of the house with a couple of small beer bongs from under the sink. Resident charged with possession of drug utensils.

Officer now attends to the original domestic violence call at the original address.

Now, it really bothers me this south auckland guy was basically doing nothing wrong, probably was not even the source of the smell, not the reason for the original call, fully cooperated without hesitation, now has a conviction for a basically victimless crime of possessing a beer bong.

Rikkitic

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#1524426 2-Apr-2016 09:11

This is a fairly well-balanced article that also relates to New Zealand: http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/300361/drug-laws-what-works,-what-doesn't

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MikeB4

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#1524431 2-Apr-2016 09:20

DarthKermit:

(Late to the discussion.)

Marijuana is just a drug. Like any drug we humans have invented or discovered, it has both positive effects and negative effects.

The legal prescription drugs that your doctor doles out also have positive and negative effects.

I think the key is to know what you're getting in to.

BTW, I've never tried marijuana as I don't smoke and have no interest in smoking anything. NOT because it's illegal.

The drug you get from your doctor is prescribed by someone who has at least 7 years training, the drug you buy in an alley is being supplied by someone who has

probably spent most of their adult life in prison and unemployed.

With the prescribed drugs you are being monitored by professionals, the alley guy is only interested in selling you more.

tdgeek

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#1524433 2-Apr-2016 09:24

There have been fewer drug arrests and charges since the law in Colorado came into effect

What a stupid comment in that article. Obviously the arrest rate will be down if it is legal.

It argued state legalisation would allow domestic criminal organisations "to cultivate and traffic marijuana with more freedom than in the past

off course

However, tourists flocking there (Netherlands) to make the most of the country's 'freedom' have added to what the government sees as a growing nuisance and crime problem.

tdgeek

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#1524436 2-Apr-2016 09:32

MikeB4:

DarthKermit:

(Late to the discussion.)

Marijuana is just a drug. Like any drug we humans have invented or discovered, it has both positive effects and negative effects.

The legal prescription drugs that your doctor doles out also have positive and negative effects.

I think the key is to know what you're getting in to.

BTW, I've never tried marijuana as I don't smoke and have no interest in smoking anything. NOT because it's illegal.

The drug you get from your doctor is prescribed by someone who has at least 7 years training, the drug you buy in an alley is being supplied by someone who has

probably spent most of their adult life in prison and unemployed.

With the prescribed drugs you are being monitored by professionals, the alley guy is only interested in selling you more.

I think bringing legal prescription drugs into the defence, shows how weak the argument for legalising drugs is. Users would like it legal, obviously. Others are probably on the anti establishment train, so the issue there is more anti Govt than anything else. We have enough issues with alcohol, violence, crime, health, driving, etc, etc, to add a range of drugs onto the market. How cheap will these drugs be? A tinny is $25 I think. If its regulated, taxed, labelled, licensed, etc, it will be more expensive probably. There goes the crime for money to buy argument. The crime sector will fill that gap, a gap thats already filled. Illegally supplied legal drugs will be cheaper than legal, so no real change. Except me and the kids can take in some free hoochie grass second hand smoke instead, as we step over the RTD cans, bottles and packaging that we do already.

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#1524438 2-Apr-2016 09:35

MikeB4:

The drug you get from your doctor is prescribed by someone who has at least 7 years training, the drug you buy in an alley is being supplied by someone who has

probably spent most of their adult life in prison and unemployed.

With the prescribed drugs you are being monitored by professionals, the alley guy is only interested in selling you more.

Mike, this is one of the main arguments for legalisation. Regulating these substances might not put them on the same level as a doctor's prescription, but at least it would allow for a degree of standardisation and safety screening. At the moment street drugs can be cut with all kinds of truly dangerous crap and there is no good way of determining the composition, which often leads to overdoses (as in the case of Philip Seymour Hoffman). Kids popping unknown pills at parties and freaking out often have something in their systems completely different from what they thought they were taking. People can go on all they like about how dumb it is to do any drugs and how everyone should know better, but that simply isn't the case and it never will be. Regulating the stuff might be the least awful option.

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#1524451 2-Apr-2016 09:52

Todays Dompost on page A5 has a article on testing drugs brought to a festival.

Turns out the tests showed that of 63 substances tested, only 27 were what the users thought they were.
This has to be a contributing factor to hospital admissions for overdoses.
If drugs were decriminalised - this risk to users would be eliminated and no doubt remove a lot of hospital admissions.

But of course, the Police dont support drug testing.

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#1524452 2-Apr-2016 09:53

Rikkitic:

MikeB4:

The drug you get from your doctor is prescribed by someone who has at least 7 years training, the drug you buy in an alley is being supplied by someone who has

probably spent most of their adult life in prison and unemployed.

With the prescribed drugs you are being monitored by professionals, the alley guy is only interested in selling you more.

Mike, this is one of the main arguments for legalisation. Regulating these substances might not put them on the same level as a doctor's prescription, but at least it would allow for a degree of standardisation and safety screening. At the moment street drugs can be cut with all kinds of truly dangerous crap and there is no good way of determining the composition, which often leads to overdoses (as in the case of Philip Seymour Hoffman). Kids popping unknown pills at parties and freaking out often have something in their systems completely different from what they thought they were taking. People can go on all they like about how dumb it is to do any drugs and how everyone should know better, but that simply isn't the case and it never will be. Regulating the stuff might be the least awful option.

Why would it change, can you really see your Doctor or any health professional supplying them? Look what happened with the legal high shops, the scumbags came out of the woodwork and set up horrible shops pushing the crap

on anyone that had the cash, crime sky rocketed where these shops were and seriously damaged other businesses around them.

gzt

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#1524456 2-Apr-2016 10:02

networkn:
ubergeeknz:

networkn:

Couldn't disagree more on every point.

Drugs are bad. The end.

Whether or not you think "Drugs are bad, m'kay?" - the simple fact is that making the use of drugs illegal has been shown to be an ineffective approach to reducing drug use and harm.

It makes me laugh when I hear people talk about the tax gain from legalizing, when the cost of compliance is about a billion times more.

They just need to make the penalties harsher (Say 4 weeks in a Thai Prison for first offenses). Let's see how many second time offenders exist after that!

I don't want high or drunk people on the roads with me, and whilst I agree it's happening now, at least if someone drives into me and my family because they are high, punishments will be forthcoming.

They don't have a drug problem in Singapore, because the penalties are very harsh.

Yeah nah Singapore has a lot of drug users. Singapore also require doctors to report any users seeking treatment to the narcotics police. Yet they still have a drug problem surprise surprise.

gzt

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#1524459 2-Apr-2016 10:09

MikeB4:
Rikkitic:

MikeB4:

The drug you get from your doctor is prescribed by someone who has at least 7 years training, the drug you buy in an alley is being supplied by someone who has

probably spent most of their adult life in prison and unemployed.

With the prescribed drugs you are being monitored by professionals, the alley guy is only interested in selling you more.

Mike, this is one of the main arguments for legalisation. Regulating these substances might not put them on the same level as a doctor's prescription, but at least it would allow for a degree of standardisation and safety screening. At the moment street drugs can be cut with all kinds of truly dangerous crap and there is no good way of determining the composition, which often leads to overdoses (as in the case of Philip Seymour Hoffman). Kids popping unknown pills at parties and freaking out often have something in their systems completely different from what they thought they were taking. People can go on all they like about how dumb it is to do any drugs and how everyone should know better, but that simply isn't the case and it never will be. Regulating the stuff might be the least awful option.

Why would it change, can you really see your Doctor or any health professional supplying them? Look what happened with the legal high shops, the scumbags came out of the woodwork and set up horrible shops pushing the crap

on anyone that had the cash, crime sky rocketed where these shops were and seriously damaged other businesses around them.

In other words not dissimilar to the alcohol situation.

plod

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#1524465 2-Apr-2016 10:19

MikeB4:
My son is a Cognitive Psychologist, he believes any legalisation of drugs will be very bad socially and medically with the affects long lasting and invasive in all aspects of society. I spent many years working in social services both voluntary and paid, I have seen all too often the devastating affects of drug and alcohol use again both physically and socially.

If legalised the ongoing costs of dealing with its aftermath would be vastly greater than the cost now.

yes and hospitals only see sick people, of course every patient your son see if a drug problem has a drug problem. I don't go to a dr unless I'm sick

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#1524469 2-Apr-2016 10:29

For anyone that can track it down, 'The House I Live In' is an outstanding 2012 documentary that looks at the 'consequences' of the war on drugs in the US, since kicked off by Nixon.

SaltyNZ

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#1524470 2-Apr-2016 10:30

MikeB4:

Why would it change, can you really see your Doctor or any health professional supplying them? Look what happened with the legal high shops, the scumbags came out of the woodwork and set up horrible shops pushing the crap

on anyone that had the cash, crime sky rocketed where these shops were and seriously damaged other businesses around them.

Read the Lancet article, Mike. You don't even need to read all 54 pages. The summary makes it pretty clear. This is a study written by a large team of people who all have Professor or at least PhD in their names, across a range of interested disciplines, including many medical doctors. The evidence is clear: prohibition not only doesn't work, it makes everything worse for everyone.

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Dairyxox

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#1524472 2-Apr-2016 10:33

MikeB4:

The drug you get from your doctor is prescribed by someone who has at least 7 years training, the drug you buy in an alley is being supplied by someone who has

probably spent most of their adult life in prison and unemployed.

With the prescribed drugs you are being monitored by professionals, the alley guy is only interested in selling you more.

Quick snipe and I'm out of this thread, don't really want to debate it...

"...probably spent most of their adult life in prison and unemployed." This is a load of rubbish This stereotype would only apply to a tiny fraction of a percent.

"...With the prescribed drugs you are being monitored by professionals, the alley guy is only interested in selling you more." While better this doesn't mean its perfect. Doctors and health professionals are hardly the be-all, end all. There are good and bad ones, for example:

I got prescribed 'zetop' (a hay fever medication [antihistamine]) from a doctor without even a mention of side effects. After reading the packet I notice it recommends not driving after taking it and recommends if you feel drowsy to take it before bed. So I do this, but i find that it makes it very difficult to get up in the morning, because I'm so drowsy. These side effects are worse than some common illegal drugs such as marijuana.

When someone procures marijuana, there is virtually no ambiguity, there is 99.9999% probability it is marijuana. A naturally occurring drug that has thousands of years of history, and experience of being used. Unlike most over the counter drugs.

I think this thread would be better if people focused on how any why the war on drugs has failed, and what that means, not their own narrow views and anecdotes on legalization or decriminalization.

On a lighter note...

Bill Hicks:

George Bush says ‘we are losing the war on drugs.’ Well, you know what that implies? There’s a war going on…and people on drugs are winning it! Well, what does that tell you about drugs? Some smart, creative mother*truckers on that side.

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