Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

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Forums › Politics › Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

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Awrrr
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#1939689 16-Jan-2018 12:49

I don't think having business experience automatically confers wisdom. It may or may not give competence at being in business, but I see no reason why there should be any expectation that it makes one any good at politics. Politicians are tasked with seeing the big picture, not just what favours business interests. Maybe they are good at that, maybe they are not, but I reject the presumption that they are somehow inherently better if they come from the right wing of politics.

The government has extensive resources at its disposal. Ministers have advisers. They have entire departments tasked with this. They do not lack for business world expertise. Not having had a long career in business does not mean one cannot make sensible decisions about business interests. I think this is a red herring. If Ministers don't listen to their advisers, that is another matter. But it just means they are bad at their job. I do not believe that lack of business experience disqualifies one from holding a position of government leadership.

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#1939693 16-Jan-2018 13:03

Rikkitic:
but I reject the presumption that they are somehow inherently better if they come from the right wing of politics.

Im not sure where you’re getting that from?
Who said anything about the right wing of politics?

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#1939697 16-Jan-2018 13:09

The issue with the insulation regs is that the homes when built were compliant.

It's unusual to retrospectively impose new standards for high value assets.

For example car safety standards are generally not retrospectively imposed.

Mike

networkn

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#1939699 16-Jan-2018 13:10

Reciprocity:
Rikkitic:

but I reject the presumption that they are somehow inherently better if they come from the right wing of politics.

Im not sure where you’re getting that from?
Who said anything about the right wing of politics?

I suspect in her mind, anyone who supports those greedy money making, staff exploiting, profit-making corporations, is right wing.

MikeAqua

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#1939702 16-Jan-2018 13:16

Rikkitic:

I don't think having business experience automatically confers wisdom. It may or may not give competence at being in business, but I see no reason why there should be any expectation that it makes one any good at politics. Politicians are tasked with seeing the big picture, not just what favours business interests. Maybe they are good at that, maybe they are not, but I reject the presumption that they are somehow inherently better if they come from the right wing of politics.

The government has extensive resources at its disposal. Ministers have advisers. They have entire departments tasked with this. They do not lack for business world expertise. Not having had a long career in business does not mean one cannot make sensible decisions about business interests. I think this is a red herring. If Ministers don't listen to their advisers, that is another matter. But it just means they are bad at their job. I do not believe that lack of business experience disqualifies one from holding a position of government leadership.

I'd like to see senior ministers have some real-world senior management experience or previous experience in a more junior ministerial portfolio.

In particular I don't think someone who had never been in government or in a senior position anywhere should be prime minister. But ... there are no compulsory qualifications for prime minister, so here we are.

The trouble with govt dept advisers is that most of them are career bureaucrats with minimal real world experience. So it's the blind advising the blind. Or worse the advisers are political creatures who lack subject matter expertise (an increasing problem in the public service) and don't then give ministers technically competent and frank advice.

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rjt123

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#1939703 16-Jan-2018 13:20

Rikkitic:

I don't think having business experience automatically confers wisdom. It may or may not give competence at being in business, but I see no reason why there should be any expectation that it makes one any good at politics. Politicians are tasked with seeing the big picture, not just what favours business interests. Maybe they are good at that, maybe they are not, but I reject the presumption that they are somehow inherently better if they come from the right wing of politics.

The government has extensive resources at its disposal. Ministers have advisers. They have entire departments tasked with this. They do not lack for business world expertise. Not having had a long career in business does not mean one cannot make sensible decisions about business interests. I think this is a red herring. If Ministers don't listen to their advisers, that is another matter. But it just means they are bad at their job. I do not believe that lack of business experience disqualifies one from holding a position of government leadership.

A lack of business experience in no way precludes somebody from politics or makes them less apt for representing our country in government. However, the point was the distinct lack of business experience in Labour's front bench. I believe a good government needs a balance of both. That doesn't necessarily mean having owned a business, but ideally having had some role in management at some level, or interaction with management to understand how business really works.

Yes, ministers have advisers, but if the ministers can't understand why their advisers take a certain point of view or why they make a certain suggestion then they are far less likely to believe it, or that adviser will be dismissed and another one with more acceptable 'ideals' will be found. Also, ministers need to be able to think on their own at some points. E.g. in question time. Also, if almost the entire cabinet lacks business experience their general bent of the government is going to be less business friendly than I think is 'healthy'.

There is value in other qualifications other than 'business experience' and there needs to be balance - but there is no substitute for experience.

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Rikkitic

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#1939704 16-Jan-2018 13:21

networkn:

Reciprocity:

Im not sure where you’re getting that from?
Who said anything about the right wing of politics?

I suspect in her mind, anyone who supports those greedy money making, staff exploiting, profit-making corporations, is right wing.

Don't be silly. The suggestion in this thread is that our current government is a hopeless disaster because no-one has any 'business experience'. I am guessing that most politicians who do have that experience are likely to be found on the right, which seems to favour business interests. I could be wrong, of course.

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networkn

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#1939705 16-Jan-2018 13:22

Rikkitic:

I don't think having business experience automatically confers wisdom. It may or may not give competence at being in business, but I see no reason why there should be any expectation that it makes one any good at politics. Politicians are tasked with seeing the big picture, not just what favours business interests. Maybe they are good at that, maybe they are not, but I reject the presumption that they are somehow inherently better if they come from the right wing of politics.

The government has extensive resources at its disposal. Ministers have advisers. They have entire departments tasked with this. They do not lack for business world expertise. Not having had a long career in business does not mean one cannot make sensible decisions about business interests. I think this is a red herring. If Ministers don't listen to their advisers, that is another matter. But it just means they are bad at their job. I do not believe that lack of business experience disqualifies one from holding a position of government leadership.

I knew that was coming. I could have written it for you.

Having private sector "experience" gives you just that. Experience. It helps you absorb the information you get from your advisors, because you are primed for it. Before I had kids, I had great ideals on how to raise kids. People told me it wasn't as easy as I made it out to be, even people more qualified than me, because in the world I lived in, I had no real first hand experience. It's human nature to make assumptions and presumptions based on what you know. Parenting has been an eye opener for me, lots of mistakes have been made, thankfully none fatal to this date. A lot of my preconceptions have been squashed and compromises have been made I never thought were possible.

I suspect that no matter how hard a neuroscientist tried, she couldn't adequately explain Brain Surgery to you, certainly not well enough for you to regulate the medical industry.

The problem isn't the lack of experience, it's the COMPLETE lack of experience. They don't have any balance in their front line, despite 75% of revenue coming from that source and therefore they can't adequately grasp the flow on effects of decisions made by them.

Labour promised 100,000 houses in 10 years. That's 27 a day, every single day for 10 years. They still haven't started the first one, now they need almost 30 a day. If they lived in the real world, they would know the math doesn't add up. I suspect they are going to be planning how this works for at least the next 12 months, before a hammer is picked up.

MikeB4

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#1939716 16-Jan-2018 13:49

Did years of private business prepare Trump for leading a country?

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

networkn

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#1939719 16-Jan-2018 13:52

MikeB4: Did years of private business prepare Trump for leading a country?

Yes, for the areas that relate to business, I'd say it would be one of his only areas of "expertise"

He also should have spent some time in politics and come through the ranks, so he understood how that system worked too.

A perfect reason for Oprah not to consider running.

A variety of experiences would be the ideal makeup. Trump and his team are equally lopsided.

MikeB4

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#1939720 16-Jan-2018 13:54

Trump, expertise now there is an oxymoron.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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networkn

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#1939726 16-Jan-2018 14:02

MikeB4: Trump, expertise now there is an oxymoron.

The guy is painfully unqualified to be POTUS, I don't think many would disagree. If he stopped talking midway through sentences he wouldn't across as half the buffoon he always seems to sound, but I think it's disingenuous to discount the businesses he has built and the money he has made.

I was thinking that at least as a result of his presidency America would be better off for having learned from the experience, but they didn't learn from 8 years of Bush, so maybe there is no hope.

MikeB4

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#1939729 16-Jan-2018 14:07

He is as inept at being a CEO as he is at being C in C. With over a dozen insolvencies, countless failure and a trail of wreckage. If he had started with his own resources he would be an unknown.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

6FIEND

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#1939730 16-Jan-2018 14:09

networkn:

Labour promised 100,000 houses in 10 years. That's 27 a day, every single day for 10 years. They still haven't started the first one, now they need almost 30 a day. If they lived in the real world, they would know the math doesn't add up. I suspect they are going to be planning how this works for at least the next 12 months, before a hammer is picked up.

Don't worry, they've already started walking back that flagship policy.

Labour has previously indicated that KiwiBuild will ramp up to 16,000 homes within their first term before building over 10,000 a year in order to reach 100,000 in a decade. "In the first half of next year we'll have a number of sites where the first KiwiBuild homes will be built," Twyford said. "I would hope we would be turning the key in the front door of KiwiBuild homes some time in the middle of next year, but that will be a real stretch."

They only need to deliver 16,000 homes between mid next (this) year and the end of their term.

That's only 20 a day. Every single day. And they can then quietly bury the policy at the 2020 election.

6FIEND

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#1939738 16-Jan-2018 14:35

Just to note: NZ business confidence drops on Labour policy concerns

It is entirely coincidental that this story was just published :-)

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