Israel and Middle East 2023 War 2025 Accord

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#3147249 13-Oct-2023 15:08

MikeB4:
Handle9:

Did you read that list?

Hamas isn’t there.

Of course I didn't read it 🙄

Hamas is not on that list because the UN has not declared Hamas a terrorist organisation. Aotearoa follows the UN resolutions.

Do I believe the UN should designate Hamas a terrorist organisation? Most certainly

I shouldn’t make comments before bed, I misinterpreted your post. As you were.

Handle9

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#3147250 13-Oct-2023 15:12

SJB:
MikeB4:

@Handsomedan at some point the matter of crimes against humanity by Netanyahu will need to be addressed. Sadly he is taking Israel down a very bad path and was clearly his intentions when regaining the leadership. On the other side the Palestinian peoples need with the help of other sane nations need to rid themselves of the likes of Hamas if they are to gain their homeland they deserve.

I can't see any way in which any of those issues will be resolved. It would need something on an unimaginable scale to alter the status quo, maybe nuclear attacks by Iran or Israel or a pandemic with a very high mortality rate.

Gaza in particular is almost irresolvable. It’ll always be a threat to Israel but you can’t magic away a couple of million people.

Handle9

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#3147251 13-Oct-2023 15:13

MikeB4:
@SJB I feel locking a population into a ghetto, laying siege and bombing that population is grounds for crimes against humanity. The Knesset needs to remove Netanyahu.

You skipped denying them food, water and power. It’s the perfect terrorist generation machine.

MikeB4

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#3147256 13-Oct-2023 15:24

Handle9:

Gaza in particular is almost irresolvable. It’ll always be a threat to Israel but you can’t magic away a couple of million people.

The Gaza ghetto should never have existed. The rest of the world should have stood up and said no. As you have said it was/is the perfect germination ground for radicalisation and terrorism.

Israel attempted to sweep away 2million people by pushing them into a ghetto and making them stateless. They then barracked that ghetto making life intolerable what on earth did the think it would achieve?

This does not excuse the deplorable actions of Hamas and neither does the actions of Hamas excuse the actions of Netanyahu and the IDF. The die was cast of this event when the ghetto of Gaza was created.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

ezbee

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#3147257 13-Oct-2023 15:25

There is Egyptian side,

Some have mooted that Israel may be hinting for Egypt to take in Gazans who want to leave for the moment.
International aid can easily be supported on Egyption territory where more aid organisations can operate, more openly.
Egypt has its problems, but much less than working with Hamas.

Egypt is over 100M people, with large military, so can also be paid to help as well, they do get a lot of western aid already.

Problem is Egypt absolutely does not want more Hamas operating on their territory, if focus shifts.

MikeB4

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#3147258 13-Oct-2023 15:32

ezbee:

There is Egyptian side,

Some have mooted that Israel may be hinting for Egypt to take in Gazans who want to leave for the moment.
International aid can easily be supported on Egyption territory where more aid organisations can operate, more openly.
Egypt has its problems, but much less than working with Hamas.

Egypt is over 100M people, with large military, so can also be paid to help as well, they do get a lot of western aid already.

Problem is Egypt absolutely does not want more Hamas operating on their territory, if focus shifts.

Why should Palestinians be forced from their homeland. If they go to the Sinai, Israel will never allow them to return trapping them stateless in refugee camps for god knows how long.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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Handle9

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#3147265 13-Oct-2023 15:42

ezbee:

There is Egyptian side,

Some have mooted that Israel may be hinting for Egypt to take in Gazans who want to leave for the moment.
International aid can easily be supported on Egyption territory where more aid organisations can operate, more openly.
Egypt has its problems, but much less than working with Hamas.

Egypt is over 100M people, with large military, so can also be paid to help as well, they do get a lot of western aid already.

Problem is Egypt absolutely does not want more Hamas operating on their territory, if focus shifts.

Egypt has blockaded Gaza since 2007. They have no interest.

kingdragonfly

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#3147275 13-Oct-2023 16:03

gzt: You have put Orthodox in that box and you're basically just wrong, and this is dangerous, and leads to all kinds of further misconceptions which also affect so called Ultra-Orthodox.

You're correct. Even though I was raised in a strangely mixed conservative religious background, it's been some decades. I used inappropriate and incorrect shorthand.

To my credit, several respected journalists have recently made the same mistake.

I find these sorts of religious discussion uncomfortable, as it really brings out the worst in people.

Jonathan Swift, Irish poet and satirist, Thoughts on Various Subjects (1711)

"We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another."

Wombat1

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#3147341 13-Oct-2023 23:18

kingdragonfly: It's off topic but a number of Orthodox Jews and evangelic Christians want a return of the lands of King David, for various religious reasons, such as bringing on the end times.

King David was not a nice guy. But these acts were not unusual for the times.

Chapters 17-19 (17-18-19) tells us that David killed 22,000 Syrians and that Abishai killed 18,000 Edomites. No one expresses shame at such slaughters.

20:3, we have David slaughtering captives after the cessation of hostilities.

II Samuel 12:31, "And he brought forth the people that were therein, and put them under saws, and under harrows of iron, and under the axes of iron, and made them pass through the brickkiln: and thus did he unto all the cities of the children of Ammon. So David and all the people returned unto Jerusalem."

Translation:

Put them under saws: cut them with saws while alive

Harrows of iron: bludgeon with heavy iron tools, often armed with sharp points on the lower side. The tools were used for the purposes of threshing the grain and breaking up the straw.

Pass thought the brick-kiln: burned them in a brick-kiln, again often while alive.

Quoting the bible as proof? You don’t believe what is written in it do you?

MikeB4

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#3147352 14-Oct-2023 07:25

@Wombat1 it is obvious that Kingdragonfly is showing why religious zealots from both sides believe what they believe. Nowhere does it say that Kingdragonfly believes it.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

kingdragonfly

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#3147354 14-Oct-2023 07:35

Wombat1:Quoting the bible as proof? You don’t believe what is written in it do you?

I only mention King David because the historical claim on the restoration of the City of David is a subtext for the conflict.

Some religious scholars don't believe in a well-defined City of David, or even that King David was real.

Jewish Virtual Library: History of Jerusalem: Myth and Reality of King David’s Jerusalem

However there are people who do. Within this population they are fanatics who consider conflict in Israel as not only inevitable but desirable.

As an aside, it's funny how people insist on banning books from libraries based on content, sex and violence mostly. They must have never read the mainstream religious texts.

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Wombat1

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#3147421 14-Oct-2023 11:04

Are you talking about banning books or restricting them to certain age groups? Two very different things. Can you provide some examples of these so called banned books on nz?

freitasm

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#3147471 14-Oct-2023 11:36

Wombat1: Are you talking about banning books or restricting them to certain age groups? Two very different things. Can you provide some examples of these so called banned books on nz?

I have the impression, from previous comments, you are not debating in good faith. You are not discussing the topic, but discussing the person and asking questions unrelated.

I have restricted your access to this thread.

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kingdragonfly

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#3147500 14-Oct-2023 14:46

Wombat1: Are you talking about banning books or restricting them to certain age groups? Two very different things. Can you provide some examples of these so called banned books on nz?

It does seem to be a spurious question / strawman argument.

MikeB4

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#3147504 14-Oct-2023 15:06

kingdragonfly:

As an aside, it's funny how people insist on banning books from libraries based on content, sex and violence mostly. They must have never read the mainstream religious texts.

Somewhat off topic but I can remember reading Revelations as a kid and it scaring the pants off me.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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