Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

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Forums › Politics › Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

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Awrrr
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#1944794 22-Jan-2018 14:44

Others are doing the prejudging, not me. All I'm doing is suggesting that the prejudging should be dialled back.

Guess what? Women are individuals. Just like men. Isn't that a revelation? Different women will have different experiences and different capabilities. One such woman, who unlike most of the commentators here, is not only a woman but also a mother and a former PM, is Jenny Shipley. She is even a member of the National Party and she still thinks Jacinda Ardern will do just fine as PM with a baby. If anyone should know, it is her. Maybe it is time to close this subject and move on to something that people actually know something about.

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networkn

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#1944796 22-Jan-2018 14:49

Rikkitic:

Others are doing the prejudging, not me. All I'm doing is suggesting that the prejudging should be dialled back.

Guess what? Women are individuals. Just like men. Isn't that a revelation? Different women will have different experiences and different capabilities. One such woman, who unlike most of the commentators here, is not only a woman but also a mother and a former PM, is Jenny Shipley. She is even a member of the National Party and she still thinks Jacinda Ardern will do just fine as PM with a baby. If anyone should know, it is her. Maybe it is time to close this subject and move on to something that people actually know something about.

Big difference between having kids whilst PM and being pregnant and giving birth.

Sleep deprivation is the worst part of being a new parent, but it's often also pretty uncomfortable the last 2 months.

Sleep deprivation has been compared to alcohol consumption by many studies and has been said to be as bad if not worse.

Would you support JA being PM if she was constantly hammered? (I don't doubt some here would take a "wait and see" approach)

I don't think many (if any, other than the man himself) support WP as PM. Most those who I know voted for NZF, voted strategically, expecting National and NZF to form a Government, and of those, I imagine some if not most would cringe at the thought of him leading us.

Thanks to JA we are now stuck with him as PM for 6 weeks, and quite possibly longer. Another misstep in my view.

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#1944797 22-Jan-2018 14:56

I have deliberately not passed comment since the pregnancy announcement (besides an initial "Neat!").

It has been interesting and entirely predictable to watch all and sundry come out of the woodwork and proclaim that there is no reason why Ardern can't perform both the role of PM and Mother successfully. I'm wondering how many of them have any reason to believe this? I'm only wondering because it seems that only 6 months ago, Jacinda herself was adamant that she didn't have the temperament for the PM's role - let alone any additional responsibilities.

Jacinda Ardern has shot down claims that she’s after the party’s top job telling NEXT magazine that, despite the positive reaction to her promotion, she’s not holding out to become leader.

"I just feel like there’s more people to let down now. I do feel an enormous amount of pressure" (as deputy leader of the opposition)

"It’s me knowing myself and knowing that actually, when you’re a bit of an anxious person, and you constantly worry about things, there comes a point where certain jobs are just really bad for you... I’ve got a pretty big weight of responsibility right now; I can’t imagine doing much more than that."

The 36-year-old politician describes herself as too much of a ‘risk-averse person’ to be prime minister at this stage in her career.

“I always have been. Which is why politics is such a terrible place for me to be! I’m constantly anxious about making mistakes..."

"Clarke [Gayford, Ardern's long-term partner] really tries to pull me back from the precipice of anxiety a lot, but it’s just who I am"

"The idea of anything other than having Andrew in the job just isn’t something I want to think about. That’s the honest answer."

I'm very happy for Clarke & Jacinda, and I'm pretty confident that she will be a great Mother. However I do hope that she doesn't let a job that she is ill-suited to detract from that.

Geektastic

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#1944800 22-Jan-2018 15:00

Rikkitic:

Others are doing the prejudging, not me. All I'm doing is suggesting that the prejudging should be dialled back.

Guess what? Women are individuals. Just like men. Isn't that a revelation? Different women will have different experiences and different capabilities. One such woman, who unlike most of the commentators here, is not only a woman but also a mother and a former PM, is Jenny Shipley. She is even a member of the National Party and she still thinks Jacinda Ardern will do just fine as PM with a baby. If anyone should know, it is her. Maybe it is time to close this subject and move on to something that people actually know something about.

Personally, I have yet to be convinced she is capable of the job WITHOUT the baby.

networkn

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#1944802 22-Jan-2018 15:05

For those who are trying to compare Bill English taking time off, it's NOT the same thing.

What would be the same thing, would be if Bill English was a woman and announced her pregnancy, and yes, I would expect ( and would be offering ) the same detraction. It's not a Labour/National thing, it's a likely fitness for the job thing, and she hasn't exactly blown the barn doors off without the extra responsibility..

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#1944828 22-Jan-2018 15:49

networkn:

"What would be the same thing, would be if Bill English was a woman and announced her pregnancy, and yes, I would expect ( and would be offering ) the same detraction.

You said it, not me. Your own words. Your problem is that she is a woman. Full stop.

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networkn

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#1944836 22-Jan-2018 15:58

Rikkitic:

networkn:

"What would be the same thing, would be if Bill English was a woman and announced her pregnancy, and yes, I would expect ( and would be offering ) the same detraction.

You said it, not me. Your own words. Your problem is that she is a woman. Full stop.

No, my issue is that she is a woman who is PM and having a baby.

I don't think those two roles are well suited to each other. I think it will further compromise her ability to do a job she already said she wasn't qualified for, suited to, nor wanted.

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MikeB4

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#1944837 22-Jan-2018 16:05

networkn:

Rikkitic:

networkn:

"What would be the same thing, would be if Bill English was a woman and announced her pregnancy, and yes, I would expect ( and would be offering ) the same detraction.

You said it, not me. Your own words. Your problem is that she is a woman. Full stop.

No, my issue is that she is a woman who is PM and having a baby.

I don't think those two roles are well suited to each other. I think it will further compromise her ability to do a job she already said she wasn't qualified for, suited to, nor wanted.

So you say a woman cannot be a PM and a mother, the logical extrapolation of that would be a male cannot be a PM and a father.

networkn

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#1944838 22-Jan-2018 16:06

MikeB4:

So you say a woman cannot be a PM and a mother, the logical extrapolation of that would be a male cannot be a PM and a father.

No, but nice try.

Maybe stop trying to twist my words.

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#1944841 22-Jan-2018 16:10

networkn:

MikeB4:

So you say a woman cannot be a PM and a mother, the logical extrapolation of that would be a male cannot be a PM and a father.

No, but nice try.

Maybe stop trying to twist my words.

Then by extrapolation of your comment a woman cannot be mother and a PM but a male can do both

networkn

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#1944844 22-Jan-2018 16:13

MikeB4:

networkn:

MikeB4:

So you say a woman cannot be a PM and a mother, the logical extrapolation of that would be a male cannot be a PM and a father.

No, but nice try.

Maybe stop trying to twist my words.

Then by extrapolation of your comment a woman cannot be mother and a PM but a male can do both

*still* not what I was saying, but keep going.

Can I give you a shovel to help with that digging? :-)

Rikkitic

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#1944845 22-Jan-2018 16:14

You strike me as a chivalrous type so I don't doubt that you hold women in high regard and genuinely admire and respect them. But I think this admiration and respect is for women doing things you are familiar with - housewives, mothers, daughters. I think maybe you might have trouble fully accepting women in modern, non-traditional roles. For example, how do you feel about young women sent into combat to confront and kill male enemy soldiers? How do you feel about female wrestlers? Or even rugby players? Do you have the same regard for them, or do you think this is not really something women should be doing?

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rjt123

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#1944846 22-Jan-2018 16:18

Rikkitic:

You strike me as a chivalrous type so I don't doubt that you hold women in high regard and genuinely admire and respect them. But I think this admiration and respect is for women doing things you are familiar with - housewives, mothers, daughters. I think maybe you might have trouble fully accepting women in modern, non-traditional roles. For example, how do you feel about young women sent into combat to confront and kill male enemy soldiers? How do you feel about female wrestlers? Or even rugby players? Do you have the same regard for them, or do you think this is not really something women should be doing?

Not when they're pregnant.

MikeB4

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#1944849 22-Jan-2018 16:19

networkn:

*still* not what I was saying, but keep going.

Can I give you a shovel to help with that digging? :-)

So please explain this "I don't think those two roles are well suited to each other. I think it will further compromise her ability to do a job she already said she wasn't qualified for, suited to, nor wanted. "

you say its not both that are not able to do both roles so it must be one of them that can do both

So what is ? males can do both, males cant do both. Women can do both, women cant do both.

rjt123

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#1944851 22-Jan-2018 16:20

MikeB4:

networkn:

Rikkitic:

networkn:

"What would be the same thing, would be if Bill English was a woman and announced her pregnancy, and yes, I would expect ( and would be offering ) the same detraction.

You said it, not me. Your own words. Your problem is that she is a woman. Full stop.

No, my issue is that she is a woman who is PM and having a baby.

I don't think those two roles are well suited to each other. I think it will further compromise her ability to do a job she already said she wasn't qualified for, suited to, nor wanted.

So you say a woman cannot be a PM and a mother, the logical extrapolation of that would be a male cannot be a PM and a father.

Males and females might be intellectually equal. However it is indisputable that they are biologically different. Therefore your extrapolation is actually illogical.

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