So it begins...

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#1956827 14-Feb-2018 10:08

MaxLV:

"National's 9 years of neo-liberal policies were another reason why they lost the government benches."

Wrong. Those policies are what ensure it got significantly the highest party vote in the election. As much as you like the labour government you can't change the fact they get significantly less party votes (as a party) than National. Period

"A lot of NZF policies have been included in the coalition agreement "

Welcome to the real world. Agreements ain't action buddy. I was actually looking down the track to see what policies are actually achieved. Lets see how it pans out in three years :)

And yes, i'm easily distracted. So to get back on topic, as for Judith Collins... Interesting is all I can say. Don't know if she's the best choice, but certainly could liven things up in parliament.

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#1956835 14-Feb-2018 10:17

rjt123:

And yes, i'm easily distracted. So to get back on topic, as for Judith Collins... Interesting is all I can say. Don't know if she's the best choice, but certainly could liven things up in parliament.

I have been thinking about this overnight. Originally I was like No No No!. However, I do think she is a strong personality, and she is experienced, but she probably needs to work a little on her delivery. She has some time to get this done. Bill English did a reasonable job of becoming more likeable (accessible) over a relatively short period. He did this by letting people see he is a real person, with a family, with more depth than just being a finance person.

I mean if someone who didn't want the job (a calculating lie I believe) with no experience and who had never really won/led anything in politics can become the PM, anything is possible, right? :)

The problem I have with Bridges/Collins, is that if they end up Leader/Deputy, there is always going to be the question will one try and roll the other in the back of my mind.

I am a little surprised that National has been so passive, there are so many things that Labour is just a trainwreck on, yet they say next to nothing on it. I do wonder if it's a matter of enough rope...

MaxLV

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#1956862 14-Feb-2018 10:29

rjt123:

MaxLV:

"National's 9 years of neo-liberal policies were another reason why they lost the government benches."

Wrong. Those policies are what ensure it got significantly the highest party vote in the election. As much as you like the labour government you can't change the fact they get significantly less party votes (as a party) than National. Period

"A lot of NZF policies have been included in the coalition agreement "

Welcome to the real world. Agreements ain't action buddy. I was actually looking down the track to see what policies are actually achieved. Lets see how it pans out in three years :)

And yes, i'm easily distracted. So to get back on topic, as for Judith Collins... Interesting is all I can say. Don't know if she's the best choice, but certainly could liven things up in parliament.

It's not a Labour government. It's a coalition government.

The majority of voters in the 2017 election did not vote for the National party, we voted for the coalition government we now have.

We voted for a change of government which is what we got.

That's how MMP works.

National got 44% of the party vote, The coalition government got 51%.

The real world is that many of the NZF policies are policies of the Coalition government. Are you denying that fact?

rjt123

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#1956866 14-Feb-2018 10:39

MaxLV:

rjt123:

MaxLV:

"National's 9 years of neo-liberal policies were another reason why they lost the government benches."

Wrong. Those policies are what ensure it got significantly the highest party vote in the election. As much as you like the labour government you can't change the fact they get significantly less party votes (as a party) than National. Period

"A lot of NZF policies have been included in the coalition agreement "

Welcome to the real world. Agreements ain't action buddy. I was actually looking down the track to see what policies are actually achieved. Lets see how it pans out in three years :)

And yes, i'm easily distracted. So to get back on topic, as for Judith Collins... Interesting is all I can say. Don't know if she's the best choice, but certainly could liven things up in parliament.

It's not a Labour government. It's a coalition government. Please note, I said as a party, not as a government. Given you can't vote for a coalition, you have to vote for an individual party's policies.

The majority of voters in the 2017 election did not vote for the National party, we voted for the coalition government we now have. Thanks for pointing this out, but you obviously didn't read my previous post, that's not what I said.

We voted for a change of government which is what we got. Thanks for pointing this out, but you obviously didn't read my previous post, that's not what I said.

That's how MMP works. Thanks for pointing this out, but you obviously didn't read my previous post, that's not what I said.

National got 44% of the party vote, The coalition government got 51%. Thanks for pointing this out, but you obviously didn't read my previous post, that's not what I said.

The real world is that many of the NZF policies are policies of the Coalition government. Are you denying that fact? No but thanks for pointing this out, but you obviously didn't read my previous post, that's not what I said.

networkn

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#1956887 14-Feb-2018 11:00

MaxLV:

The majority of voters in the 2017 election did not vote for the National party, we voted for the coalition government we now have.

We voted for a change of government which is what we got.

I don't believe that to be necessarily true.

There are plenty of NZF voters who voted NZF because they wanted and expected Winston to go with National. That would have meant the Government would have changed, but in a much less drastic and horrifying way.

There were people so upset with the decision to go National, that Winston made a condition of his support for Labour a bill to prevent them from defecting. Have you not noticed how much support for NZF has dropped since the election? Why do you think that is?

I am hopeful that Winston will step down from politics soon, and there is no guarantee that at the next election NZF will even feature in future discussions.

rjt123

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#1956907 14-Feb-2018 11:09

networkn:

I am hopeful that Winston will step down from politics soon, and there is no guarantee that at the next election NZF will even feature in future discussions.

I actually heard a rumor that Winston is showing signs of dementia. no joke.

I'm not scaremongering, just repeating what I heard. Nor am I trying to say its a good thing, just thought I related to what you said.

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tdgeek

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#1956915 14-Feb-2018 11:20

On topic would be good, the JA bashing thread is still active I assume

Collins. Aggressive and dominant can be good, as long as it doesn't get percieved that it's aggressive for aggressives sake

Bridges. Calm can be good too. Adds credence to his words

I definitely dont favour Collins. I recall it may have been Nikki Kaye that has crossed the floor a few times, so that rules her out. I feel the older ones are seen as the old establishment so that rules them out. But I am surprised that its now a race to be leader, I would have thought that this would have been well discussed behind closed doors, and an announcement made when Bill resigned

networkn

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#1956928 14-Feb-2018 11:41

MaxLV:

I'd say it's a pretty good achievement for a long term minor party political leader, but it's not the only useful thing he's done. I get free public transport anytime I want it because of Winston.

It's laughable that after 20 years of MMP, the National party still run their election campaigns on a first past the post basis... Will they ever learn?

Ah ok, I get it now, free transport.

It is not unreasonable if you are close to the support required to lead alone, to try and lead alone. It makes for a much much simpler Government.

MikeB4

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#1956931 14-Feb-2018 11:46

I don't believe Collins is a good choice. She is one of the old school perpetually grumpy politicians. She is too polarising and not in a good way and her ethics are questionable. Ms Collins and Joyce are two politicians that play the person not the policies and we do not need that crap. National needs a leader that can regain them the Treasury benches, Collins is not that person.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

tdgeek

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#1956934 14-Feb-2018 11:48

His speech/announcement (Bridges) was good. He mentioned generational change, which is essentially saying out with the old in with the young/new. I think thats a good move, a refresh. But should hijinks arise from the other contender, Collins, perhaps others, any infighting will push them right back.

MikeB4

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#1956938 14-Feb-2018 11:55

tdgeek:

His speech/announcement (Bridges) was good. He mentioned generational change, which is essentially saying out with the old in with the young/new. I think thats a good move, a refresh. But should hijinks arise from the other contender, Collins, perhaps others, any infighting will push them right back.

We have been through this before with the rise of the "young turks" in the *shudder* Muldoon era. On a score out of ten I would give them an average score of 5/10

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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tdgeek

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#1956943 14-Feb-2018 12:00

MikeB4:

tdgeek:

His speech/announcement (Bridges) was good. He mentioned generational change, which is essentially saying out with the old in with the young/new. I think thats a good move, a refresh. But should hijinks arise from the other contender, Collins, perhaps others, any infighting will push them right back.

We have been through this before with the rise of the "young turks" in the *shudder* Muldoon era. On a score out of ten I would give them an average score of 5/10

Wasn't that more of a movement of avid young supporters as distinct from MP's?

Bridges is young and experienced, although I'd prefer he improves his voice

networkn

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#1956945 14-Feb-2018 12:01

tdgeek:

Bridges is young and experienced, although I'd prefer he improves his voice

Do you mean his manner? Or are you asking him to have vocal chord manipulation?

MikeB4

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#1956948 14-Feb-2018 12:04

tdgeek:

MikeB4:

tdgeek:

His speech/announcement (Bridges) was good. He mentioned generational change, which is essentially saying out with the old in with the young/new. I think thats a good move, a refresh. But should hijinks arise from the other contender, Collins, perhaps others, any infighting will push them right back.

We have been through this before with the rise of the "young turks" in the *shudder* Muldoon era. On a score out of ten I would give them an average score of 5/10

Wasn't that more of a movement of avid young supporters as distinct from MP's?

Bridges is young and experienced, although I'd prefer he improves his voice

They were a bunch of MPs elected when Rob Muldoon was elected.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

tdgeek

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#1956993 14-Feb-2018 12:12

networkn:

tdgeek:

Bridges is young and experienced, although I'd prefer he improves his voice

Do you mean his manner? Or are you asking him to have vocal chord manipulation?

I'm not sure I can answer that without being pulled over by the FUG, lets just say I was surprised when I realised he has a wife and family, going by his voice. Another here also mentioned his diction, same reason I assume.

As to his manner, I like his manner. Stable, steady and relies on his words not on any aggressive reputation. JK was successful as he does the same, as does BE.

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