Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

To post in this sub-forum you must have made 100 posts or have Trust status or have completed our ID Verification

Forums › Politics › Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

1 | ... | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79 | 80 | 81 | 82 | 83 | 84 | 85 | ... | 268

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#1944853 22-Jan-2018 16:21

rjt123:

Rikkitic:

You strike me as a chivalrous type so I don't doubt that you hold women in high regard and genuinely admire and respect them. But I think this admiration and respect is for women doing things you are familiar with - housewives, mothers, daughters. I think maybe you might have trouble fully accepting women in modern, non-traditional roles. For example, how do you feel about young women sent into combat to confront and kill male enemy soldiers? How do you feel about female wrestlers? Or even rugby players? Do you have the same regard for them, or do you think this is not really something women should be doing?

Not when they're pregnant.

What does a PM do that a PM cannot do when pregnant with the exception of flying on public aircraft.?(PM can fly on RNZAF 757)

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18657 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1944855 22-Jan-2018 16:22

rjt123:

Not when they're pregnant.

Here is a cartoon that was in our local paper today. I think it makes the point nicely.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

networkn

Networkn
32349 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1944858 22-Jan-2018 16:29

Rikkitic:

You strike me as a chivalrous type so I don't doubt that you hold women in high regard and genuinely admire and respect them. But I think this admiration and respect is for women doing things you are familiar with - housewives, mothers, daughters. I think maybe you might have trouble fully accepting women in modern, non-traditional roles. For example, how do you feel about young women sent into combat to confront and kill male enemy soldiers? How do you feel about female wrestlers? Or even rugby players? Do you have the same regard for them, or do you think this is not really something women should be doing?

That's not a simple question to answer. I have no issue with female Rugby players, or in fact female athletes in general (Many whom I *greatly* admire and would be proud if my kids used as role models). Do I think they are as good as men? No. They aren't as strong, fast, or physical. In 90% + of times, for example in squash, which is a sport I play and am familiar with, the top-seeded woman wouldn't stand much of a chance against the top-seeded man. It's not impossible for her to win, but it would be rare. I have been beaten by women when I play Squash, but as a D1 graded man, I would regularly beat women 2-3 grades above me (over xmas I played a B2 woman and she didn't get a game from me). I don't say that to skite or deride her or her skill in any way (I assure you, I really like this woman and enjoyed playing her).

Same with military service. I have no issue with women serving, but do I think there is a physical difference that would prevent them doing exactly the same sort of heavier physical workloads.

In terms of PM, I prefer Males over females, but that has a lot to do with the females who have been PM in the past, including National ones, who I disliked strongly for a variety of reasons. I have also disliked male PM's too for the sake of argument.

What I have an issue with, is a sitting PM giving birth whilst in power. I have a specific issue with THIS PM because she is already struggling in my view, and said she didn't want it, by her own admission suffers anxiety. She will be out of the job minimum 6 weeks, and during this time, we will be saddled with WP as PM, which makes my skin crawl. I would feel less anxious if Robertson took over.

I don't believe if Bill English was to give (actual) birth to a baby whilst in office, I'd feel any different.

I may make some adjustments to these statements over the next couple of hours because, as I said, it's complex.

networkn

Networkn
32349 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1944863 22-Jan-2018 16:35

rjt123:

Males and females might be intellectually equal. However it is indisputable that they are biologically different. Therefore your extrapolation is actually illogical.

Ding Ding! We have a winner!

Thank you.

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#1944865 22-Jan-2018 16:38

rjt123:

Males and females might be intellectually equal. However it is indisputable that they are biologically different. Therefore your extrapolation is actually illogical.

How do the physical differences affect the ability to do the job in question here?

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79250 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#1944866 22-Jan-2018 16:40

ROFL. Seriously folks?

Stop with the prejudice. There is no scientific evidence that a woman cannot do a job well because of motherhood.

Let her shine and do her part to help New Zealand.

You folks strike me as some people that will support Trump over anything just because he is a man.

Give it a break. Instead of bickering accept she got the job and help her do it instead of trying to undermine it. If it goes to shit it is your life too.

rjt123

517 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#1944868 22-Jan-2018 16:49

MikeB4:

rjt123:

Males and females might be intellectually equal. However it is indisputable that they are biologically different. Therefore your extrapolation is actually illogical.

How do the physical differences affect the ability to do the job in question here?

I believe that has been well covered in previous posts. I can't claim to have given birth myself, neither you, however I think we probably both agree that it is a physically demanding exercise. In fairness to the child I don't think she will be able to it the time and energy it deserves AND give her role as PM the time and energy it deserves.

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18657 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1944893 22-Jan-2018 16:56

I wonder how many children of leaders have suffered due to absent fathers. You and others here keep trying to make this into a female thing. It isn't. You need to understand that.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

rjt123

517 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#1944897 22-Jan-2018 17:13

Rikkitic:

I wonder how many children of leaders have suffered due to absent fathers. You and others here keep trying to make this into a female thing. It isn't. You need to understand that.

Probably many. I'm sure she'll make a great mum, and I hope she does. I also believe the mother plays a unique place in the upbringing of a child, particularly in the first couple of years. Perhaps an archaic view, but I don't back down from that. It's just nature. And I see PM and Mum as mutually exclusive events.

However, if we agree to differ we could move the conversation on, i don't think we're persuading each other or getting very far lol.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18657 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1944900 22-Jan-2018 17:25

I agree to differ.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

networkn

Networkn
32349 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1944907 22-Jan-2018 17:40

freitasm: ROFL. Seriously folks?

Stop with the prejudice. There is no scientific evidence that a woman cannot do a job well because of motherhood.

Let her shine and do her part to help New Zealand.

You folks strike me as some people that will support Trump over anything just because he is a man.

Give it a break. Instead of bickering accept she got the job and help her do it instead of trying to undermine it. If it goes to sh!t it is your life too.

Respectfully;

I am not a Trump supporter, but I could see the benefits of *some* of his policies (if they were implemented as they were promised, such as draining the swamp etc). The Trump thread was *hysterical* from 10 pages in. I advocated giving him some time to settle in and try and implement some of the policies, but not one bit of logic was applied and I was shouted out of that thread. As it turns out, some of the predictions on how dire he would be, have sadly eventuated. He is a disaster. A different President with the same agenda could have been something better/good for America (I do not support all his policies for the record).

The difference is, I don't support many Labour *policies* in their announced state, regardless of who fronts them. "Helping" her (Which I am not sure how I would anyways), would be helping her make NZ worse in my view.

Lastly, I want to be clear I would not support Trump soley because of gender (or race, or religion or pretty much anything else as a single factor). I'd support him if I felt he was doing a good job implementing policies he campaigned on.

If JA was implementing policies I supported, within budgets as was promised, was being transparent (actually), then she would have my support. So far, I have seen no evidence it's going to happen.

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79250 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#1944945 22-Jan-2018 18:15

@networkn:

I am not a Trump supporter, but I could see the benefits of *some* of his policies (if they were implemented as they were promised, such as draining the swamp etc). The Trump thread was *hysterical* from 10 pages in. I advocated giving him some time to settle in and try and implement some of the policies, but not one bit of logic was applied and I was shouted out of that thread. As it turns out, some of the predictions on how dire he would be, have sadly eventuated. He is a disaster. A different President with the same agenda could have been something better/good for America (I do not support all his policies for the record).

I am glad you finished the paragraph with "He is disaster". Despite the policies he'd be a disaster anyway. The policies were just bait, and the people there took it.

rjt123

517 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#1944947 22-Jan-2018 18:20

" The policies were just bait, and the people there took it."

Same could be said for this government

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79250 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#1944950 22-Jan-2018 18:28

rjt123: " The policies were just bait, and the people there took it."

Same could be said for this government

I think there's a stretch there.

networkn

Networkn
32349 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1944951 22-Jan-2018 18:29

freitasm:

@networkn:

I am not a Trump supporter, but I could see the benefits of *some* of his policies (if they were implemented as they were promised, such as draining the swamp etc). The Trump thread was *hysterical* from 10 pages in. I advocated giving him some time to settle in and try and implement some of the policies, but not one bit of logic was applied and I was shouted out of that thread. As it turns out, some of the predictions on how dire he would be, have sadly eventuated. He is a disaster. A different President with the same agenda could have been something better/good for America (I do not support all his policies for the record).

I am glad you finished the paragraph with "He is disaster". Despite the policies he'd be a disaster anyway. The policies were just bait, and the people there took it.

Yeah, but on the off chance there was a *possibility* he was for real and just couldn't keep his mouth shut (if he stopped speaking halfway through any sentence he would be 1/8th as revolting) it was worth giving him some chance to prove himself. I gave him 6 months, because he was inexperienced, but I knew after 4 months, it was a horrible situation.

On the other hand, for me personally, almost all Labours policies are a disaster, every one they implement makes NZ worse in the longer term, and what they do have that is good (most of which have already been walked back and the others I expect an announcement on any day to the same effect), is offset by the ones that are bad. Most of the ones that were good, were ones National were going to implement too (Lifting children's living conditions etc).

1 | ... | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79 | 80 | 81 | 82 | 83 | 84 | 85 | ... | 268