So it begins...

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Awrrr
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#1956996 14-Feb-2018 12:13

I have pulled back from these threads because they just go around in circles and I got tired of it. But since repetition seems to be the name of the game here (JA is unqualified for anything, the coalition is a train wreck, etcetera ad nauseum) I feel impelled to once again add my own repetition that there sure are some sour losers here.

Apart from the endless whinging about the election and the government, I will be interested to see what happens with the National leadership contest how that changes the interaction between government and opposition. Interesting times lie ahead.

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tdgeek

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#1957004 14-Feb-2018 12:18

Well, that's the afternoon sorted! :-)

I agree as the JA thread is for the other, this one is about the National Party leadership possible future change, and now actual change.

networkn

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#1957010 14-Feb-2018 12:30

tdgeek:

Well, that's the afternoon sorted! :-)

I agree as the JA thread is for the other, this one is about the National Party leadership possible future change, and now actual change.

I think some crossover is inevitable as we talk about the people who can potentially challenge this unholy trinity :)

tdgeek

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#1957018 14-Feb-2018 12:38

networkn:

tdgeek:

Well, that's the afternoon sorted! :-)

I agree as the JA thread is for the other, this one is about the National Party leadership possible future change, and now actual change.

I think some crossover is inevitable as we talk about the people who can potentially challenge this unholy trinity :)

Lol yes there is crossover and I think I cross overed when I mentioned the possible young vs young choice with Simon Bridges to "match" JA with Labour

But other than that I cant see much other relevance with Labour, its about National Party leadership

networkn

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#1957025 14-Feb-2018 12:51

tdgeek:

Lol yes there is crossover and I think I cross overed when I mentioned the possible young vs young choice with Simon Bridges to "match" JA with Labour

But other than that I cant see much other relevance with Labour, its about National Party leadership

Well, what do you think the leader of any oppositions primary role is? To take back power, and also to hold the other party to account.

In deciding leadership there is going to be a discussion around who is best staged to do this, which inevitably leads to a discussion around the other parties strengths and weaknesses.

To be fair the other thread isn't just a JA bashing thread, she just happens to be the head. As time goes on there appears to be plenty of blame to go around for failing to deliver on promises :)

MikeB4

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#1957030 14-Feb-2018 12:59

networkn:

tdgeek:

Lol yes there is crossover and I think I cross overed when I mentioned the possible young vs young choice with Simon Bridges to "match" JA with Labour

But other than that I cant see much other relevance with Labour, its about National Party leadership

Well, what do you think the leader of any oppositions primary role is? To take back power, and also to hold the other party to account.

In deciding leadership there is going to be a discussion around who is best staged to do this, which inevitably leads to a discussion around the other parties strengths and weaknesses.

To be fair the other thread isn't just a JA bashing thread, she just happens to be the head. As time goes on there appears to be plenty of blame to go around for failing to deliver on promises :)

The role or Her Majesty's opposition is to question the government and to scrutinise the governments activity.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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networkn

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#1957033 14-Feb-2018 13:01

The role or Her Majesty's opposition is to question the government and to scrutinise the governments activity.

Right, and do you claim they should not seek to also be in power?

Why bother opposing if you can't do a better job?

MikeB4

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#1957036 14-Feb-2018 13:05

networkn:

The role or Her Majesty's opposition is to question the government and to scrutinise the governments activity.

Right, and do you claim they should not seek to also be in power?

Why bother opposing if you can't do a better job?

The role of the official opposition is as I said. What the Party does and desires is not a parliamentary matter and not a crown matter.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
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#1957042 14-Feb-2018 13:14

Without specifically referencing New Zealand, my ideal would be a less adversarial system in general. I think the job of a loyal opposition ought to be to hold the government to account, but also to work with the government wherever possible for the common good. It should not be to try to score points or undermine the government by any means possible for the sole purpose of taking over. It should not be a competition like a rugby match. Both sides have good ideas that stem from different political perspectives. Instead of it always having to be one or the other, why not take the best from both? Of course there will be areas of fundamental disagreement, but there will also be many where cooperation produces the best result.

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networkn

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#1957044 14-Feb-2018 13:16

Rikkitic:

Without specifically referencing New Zealand, my ideal would be a less adversarial system in general. I think the job of a loyal opposition ought to be to hold the government to account, but also to work with the government wherever possible for the common good. It should not be to try to score points or undermine the government by any means possible for the sole purpose of taking over. It should not be a competition like a rugby match. Both sides have good ideas that stem from different political perspectives. Instead of it always having to be one or the other, why not take the best from both? Of course there will be areas of fundamental disagreement, but there will also be many where cooperation produces the best result.

Sure didn't feel like you felt that was the best approach when National was in power. It's easy to say when it's "your" ideals you want getting the backing.

Totally different when you feel that the way a party is going to ruining the country.

tdgeek

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#1957052 14-Feb-2018 13:27

networkn:

tdgeek:

Lol yes there is crossover and I think I cross overed when I mentioned the possible young vs young choice with Simon Bridges to "match" JA with Labour

But other than that I cant see much other relevance with Labour, its about National Party leadership

Well, what do you think the leader of any oppositions primary role is? To take back power, and also to hold the other party to account.

In deciding leadership there is going to be a discussion around who is best staged to do this, which inevitably leads to a discussion around the other parties strengths and weaknesses.

To be fair the other thread isn't just a JA bashing thread, she just happens to be the head. As time goes on there appears to be plenty of blame to go around for failing to deliver on promises :)

I don't see how the governing partys strengths and weaknesses affect the appointment of a new leader. They need a leader not an opposing MP, as they are all opposing MP's. They are supposed to be cohesive and united but that clearly is not the case, thats what the new leader needs to do, that applies if Labour was a trainwreck ( :-) ) or of doing fine, ir of doing great. Without a unified party Nats are at risk

New World

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Rikkitic

Awrrr
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#1957055 14-Feb-2018 13:32

networkn:

Sure didn't feel like you felt that was the best approach when National was in power. It's easy to say when it's "your" ideals you want getting the backing.

Totally different when you feel that the way a party is going to ruining the country.

I don't know where you get that from. I didn't like Labour in opposition any better than I like National in opposition. Fish-slapping belongs on Monty Python, not in Parliament.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

MikeB4

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#1957063 14-Feb-2018 13:56

They did way better fish slapping in Asterix

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

MikeAqua

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#1957079 14-Feb-2018 14:12

Rikkitic:

Without specifically referencing New Zealand, my ideal would be a less adversarial system in general. I think the job of a loyal opposition ought to be to hold the government to account, but also to work with the government wherever possible for the common good.

Opposition votes with govt more often than the rhetoric of politics would lead one to expect.

Just not on bills where there is political capital to be made.

But the opposition has to differentiate itself from the govt somehow - otherwise why would anyone vote for change. Consequently, point scoring and criticism for criticism's sake are inevitable.

BTW isn't the official UK terminology: Her Majesty's Most Loyal Opposition ?

Mike

networkn

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#1957087 14-Feb-2018 14:20

Interestingly, but off topic, I was a huge fan of Asterix as a kid, read everything. Tried to show it to my 8 year old son, and gave up 2 pages in after trying to explain all the concepts. It's quite complex.

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