Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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Forums › Politics › Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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marmel

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#2291638 7-Aug-2019 13:51

Rikkitic:
marmel:

It was a reply to what I thought was a fairly silly statement in the first place.

Is that what it was? What does it have to do with CNN? I thought that was a pretty silly statement.

Asking if I had a fixation with Democrats just because I am disagreeing with the narrative in this thread has about the same relevance as me asking if the person posting if they are fixated with CNN.

Both are making assumptions based on incorrect beliefs that "if you think this you must think this".

I do have an issue with democrats, I also have an issue with republicans, Trump and the media as well. All have contributed to the big mess the US political system is currently in.

I would not have voted for Trump and I dont think he should have been elected President however i am not going to agree with everything the media like to suggest should happen or politicians claim in the wake of a tragic event like the recent shootings.

Rikkitic

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#2291670 7-Aug-2019 14:24

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I certainly agree with you that they all have contributed to the current mess but your posts keep going on about what the Democrats have done wrong or are unable to do right while the immediate situation at this time is mainly a Republican one. The Democrats have actually moved bills in the house to try to do something. They are stuck in the Senate with the Republicans refusing to act. Whatever the Democrats may or may not have failed to do in the past, right now it is the Republicans who are standing in the way. In view of recent events, that is unconscionable.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

kingdragonfly

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#2291680 7-Aug-2019 14:42

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Trevor Reacts to the El Paso & Dayton Shootings

The Daily Show with Trevor Noah

Trevor reacts to Neil deGrasse Tyson’s tweet about mass shooting deaths following the tragedies in El Paso and Dayton, and wonders why the U.S. won’t even try to tackle gun control in any meaningful way.

Fred99

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#2291778 7-Aug-2019 16:14

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marmel:

If the brains trust in the democrats thought impeachment was going to be a positive for them Trump would of been impeached by now.

It's true. When Nixon was impeached, there was a smidgen of bipartisan respect for the rule of law, now there's zero chance that Republicans would allow Trump to be impeached regardless of evidence, they'll put their spin machine in motion through partisan media that there wasn't evidence to impeach, and a significant % of the population will believe it.

Better to concentrate on preparing to prosecute Trump as a citizen after the 2020 election. If Trump wins 2020 though, which is possible or even likely the way Democrats are behaving at the moment, then all is lost. Statute of limitations would protect Trump as many of the crimes he seems to have committed happened before he was POTUS. He could still be tried for treason, but proving that would be all but impossible.

marmel

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#2291786 7-Aug-2019 16:31

Rikkitic:
I certainly agree with you that they all have contributed to the current mess but your posts keep going on about what the Democrats have done wrong or are unable to do right while the immediate situation at this time is mainly a Republican one. The Democrats have actually moved bills in the house to try to do something. They are stuck in the Senate with the Republicans refusing to act. Whatever the Democrats may or may not have failed to do in the past, right now it is the Republicans who are standing in the way. In view of recent events, that is unconscionable.

And you completely miss my point that whilst everyone seems happy to jump on the "blame the republicans" bandwagon which you have reinforced by your above statement, the Democrats COULD have done something 2009-2011 when they had full control of the US house and senate and presidency. Despite several mass shootings during that time nothing was done.remember Virginia Tech? 32 dead, just two years prior in 2007, still nothing done.

So I have little time for anyone who is now happy to point the finger of blame but conveniently ignore recent history as not relevant.

Please read my earlier post about why I don't believe the Democrats are serious about gun control. It's easy to call for changes which are likely to be a political hot potato when you know there is no chance of it happening.

Fred99

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#2291794 7-Aug-2019 16:57

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marmel:
Rikkitic:

I certainly agree with you that they all have contributed to the current mess but your posts keep going on about what the Democrats have done wrong or are unable to do right while the immediate situation at this time is mainly a Republican one. The Democrats have actually moved bills in the house to try to do something. They are stuck in the Senate with the Republicans refusing to act. Whatever the Democrats may or may not have failed to do in the past, right now it is the Republicans who are standing in the way. In view of recent events, that is unconscionable.

the Democrats COULD have done something 2009-2011 when they had full control of the US house and senate and presidency.

That's actually not true.

The Democrats only - and barely with the support of two independents - had the required majority (60/100 seats) for 4 months. (from September 24, 2009 until February 4, 2010)

The statement you've made above is fake news aka "whataboutism" circulated by partisan media etc.

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DR

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#2291795 7-Aug-2019 17:02

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marmel

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#2291798 7-Aug-2019 17:06

Fred99:
marmel:
Rikkitic:

I certainly agree with you that they all have contributed to the current mess but your posts keep going on about what the Democrats have done wrong or are unable to do right while the immediate situation at this time is mainly a Republican one. The Democrats have actually moved bills in the house to try to do something. They are stuck in the Senate with the Republicans refusing to act. Whatever the Democrats may or may not have failed to do in the past, right now it is the Republicans who are standing in the way. In view of recent events, that is unconscionable.

the Democrats COULD have done something 2009-2011 when they had full control of the US house and senate and presidency.

That's actually not true.

The Democrats only - and barely with the support of two independents - had the required majority (60/100 seats) for 4 months. (from September 24, 2009 until February 4, 2010)

The statement you've made above is fake news aka "whataboutism" circulated by partisan media etc.

Democrats had a large majority in the house for two years and a majority in the Senate. Yes you need 60 votes in the Senate to make it "filibuster" proof but nothing was put forward from the house, no attempt was made to even try.

And your "whataboutism" statement is commonly flicked about nowadays by people who dont want to be reminded that what is happening now has been happening for years and as mad it makes people Trump cant be blamed for everything.

marmel

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#2291800 7-Aug-2019 17:08

Sideface:

Yeah I think there are major issues in the US with money/politics.

Not just gun lobbyists either, pharma, oil etc etc.

I can't really see it changing anytime soon.

freitasm

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#2291802 7-Aug-2019 17:15

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Folks, this is not about the gun laws. Keep it out of this thread.

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Fred99

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#2291839 7-Aug-2019 17:43

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marmel:

Democrats had a large majority in the house for two years and a majority in the Senate. Yes you need 60 votes in the Senate to make it "filibuster" proof but nothing was put forward from the house [over that 4 month period], no attempt was made to even try.

So why, over that 4 month period when Obamacare was debated and passed - would they have put forward a contentious bill that would have almost surely been defeated? Many Democrats did not support stronger gun control laws - and only one would have blocked it. This was a decade ago!

The world has changed. Radicalised neonazis/fascists with guns are a new (to our society) and serious threat. One of them killed 51 of us a few km from where I'm sitting, I haven't seen too much suggestion that inaction now could be validated by stating that past governments of both flavours should have used NZ parliamentary majority to tighten up gun controls in the wake of Aramoana etc. in the past.

Fred99

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#2291843 7-Aug-2019 18:04

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Perhaps the biggest issue the US faces is to reform to limit power of the senate.

That the Republicans are using "Moscow Mitch" McConnell to block almost all bills put forward by the Democrat majority in the House isn't even close to democracy as we know it.

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#2291871 7-Aug-2019 19:16

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The Washington Post - ‘We don’t want him here’: Trump to face protests and skepticism as he visits El Paso and Dayton after mass shootings

The Baby Trump balloon ... will be carrying a sign that says, “Welcome to Toledo / Dayton! Don’t be a baby - Stand up to the NRA.”

On the sign, the word “Toledo” will be crossed out. ...

Baby Trump

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#2291899 7-Aug-2019 20:07

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This opinion piece is a year old, but is still relevant:

Understanding Trump Voters and Ourselves

20 July 2018

Here are the some basic rules to far-right conservatism with regard to the natural order of things:

There is a natural hierarchy established by a higher power.
This hierarchy is perfect, unchanging and infallible. *
They (individually and tribally) are near the top of the hierarchy, and central to its purpose.
All others are near the bottom of the hierarchy, and peripheral to its purpose.
Challenges to the hierarchy are threats not just to them, but to their place in the order and to the higher power that created the framework.
Any degree of force or violence is justified to repel these threats.
The hierarchy is built on exponentially increasing orders of importance ... and thus those higher are not subject to criticism from their lessers.
Those lower on the ladder are meant to serve, glorify and enrich those higher than themselves; that is there only purpose.

* There are several corollaries to the perfection of the hierarchy, most of which can be encapsulated in the statement that, “Any system that perpetuates the hierarchy is also perfect and infallible.” So:

Capitalism is Perfect and Infallible.
Guns are Perfect and Infallible.
The Military is Perfect and Infallible.

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kingdragonfly

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#2291907 7-Aug-2019 20:18

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https://www.thecut.com/2019/08/what-will-ivanka-trump-do-after-she-leaves-the-white-house.html

Ivanka After the White House, she probably can’t go back to New York, the city that made her. So she has cannily devised another exit strategy.

New York Magazine
The Cut
By Vanessa Grigoriadis
...
[Ivanka] played the dutiful daughter on flights to Mar-a-Lago with her friends when her father would do cringey things like put a VHS tape of his recent media clips on the TV or ask them which female stars they considered hot.

Among the members of New York society in the ’90s and early aughts, [Trump] was seen as a credit clown, a joke, but never to Ivanka. His chauvinism frustrated her, however, and she was repelled by the way he talked about women’s bodies — who was fat, who was not.

In 2003, when Paris Hilton’s sex tape was leaked on the internet, Donald wouldn’t stop talking about it, saying, “Paris is laughing all the way to the bank, she’s got the last laugh, she’s marvelous.” Ivanka could not believe her father was not only idolizing an airhead heiress caught blowing a guy on a night-vision video but encouraging her to follow Paris’s lead.
...

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