Our new coalition government.

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Networkn
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#2239177 16-May-2019 14:32

Rikkitic:

Without commenting on the specifics I would just say that JA has been a little busy lately so maybe has not been in a position to devote as much attention to the mentioned things as she otherwise might have.

Well, some commentators here in support of the Coalition wouldn't accept that the things like EQ's and other things that National dealt with, was a valid excuse for not achieving their goals. Apparently, they just sat on their hands for 9 years!

With the exception of Christchurch, pretty much anything the Coalition has been busy with, has been difficulty of their own making.

I could certainly understand progress being delayed over the last 8 weeks, but they have had 18+ months to make some progress on those issues Also, I guess it depends on perspective as to whether the mini summit in Paris is a good use of her time. Stopping the event being streamed should be of secondary importance to stopping it from happening.

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#2239375 16-May-2019 17:12

Wow, you really have no idea. No commentator who supports the Coalition thinks that, you are just pushing your ideal agenda

National dealt with the GFC, as any in Govt would do, no choice. Thats a low proactive issue, its reactive.. As we all know, while we were affected, we all know we are FAR less exposed than most first world countries. EQ's . We have a fund for that, and while there are extra costs, the Govt deals with that, no matter who it was. No choice, reactive. Did they do well there?I think so, JK is good that way. Perhaps the many failed processes CERA and otherwise should have been better, but its a rare event. These issues don't excuse National as you seem to need. When we say Nats didn't do this, we aren't allowed to say that as its a Coalition thread. Its related. Whatever National did badly, or not at all, or well, is inherited. The new Govt will benefit or be dealing with stuff because of that, good or bad. But as is well known, National rely on a market driven country so they are shallow on policies. Also shallow on how they left some sections that are now in trouble. But again, we can't say that, we just need to blame the Coalition and avoid mentioning National. So much for a balanced topic.

Sitting on hands for 9 years. No. But not doing a lot either. if you look at what the Coalition is doing, that is being criticised, and some of that deserved, they should not be doing. Health, education, pollution, rivers, housing, climate change. All of these offer sound reasons to criticise, its a LOT to HAVE to take on. Do you really expect to deal with everything? They should be continuing where National has soundly put in place, and doing their own "Labour" policies, and so on, but its a case of everyone expecting everything and so much catchup from market driven policies that failed, or were not a policy as we let the market manage it. I'm sure if National gets back in the big issue is cleaning up Labours mess. Thats the situation right now, except its not Nationals mess that they made, its years of neglect that they let many areas down, Now they all seemingly need to be fixed and are the Coalitions fault. Pretty darn bizarre if you ask me.

And when something breaks, its also their fault. Well, actually they haven't been in long enough to break anything. That will probably happen, but right now, much of what's broken are the doings of previous Governments. Both colours.

Bias. I say that a lot. We are all biased. I could say that the blue side are aggressive here, some of them. I dont see that from the other side. One side is aggressive the other reacts, and in generally a non aggressive manner. Some stuff I read is truly bizarre. And we apparently have a gaping divide?? Off course we do, what a strange thing to say. Look anywhere, both sides are around 50% in most civilised countries, if you look at progressive vs conservative. So another comment that sounds great but its wrong and irrelevent.

Here we need balance. The fact that some see one side and other see the other is not relevant. Bias is not relevant. And no one comes here to be agreed with or to get someone to change sides. So, when we discuss, we should discuss. Instead of using childish remarks, silly jabs, basically smart aleck responses. When someone else comments back on the "responses", the usual drivel of you dont like it if we dont agree. We dont like it when we have to deal with intelligent people and intermixed with that is smart aleck comments. Are we all adults? I am. And yes I have lowered myself on more than one occasion to the gutter attitudes here. I mentioned Stuff comments, at times its exactly like that. I read a Stuff article, and I see BS and incorrect drivel about the Coaltion, and also about National, but that's stuff. And Neighbiurly. But when I see that here, in the middle of a robust debate, it really becomes a waste of time. And apologies to those that do post good contributions.

So, with all that :-) is this thread a discussion thread on the current Govt or is it a Coalition non supporters thread?

If the latter, which it clearly is, no need for some of us to be here. If its an adult, constructive discussion where no one really needs to get angry or defensive, then great.

networkn

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#2239795 17-May-2019 10:32

Wow, another rant. Presumably, after this, you will no longer be claiming that "Blue" is aggressive and "Red" is not. The first line puts paid to that not to mention any of the others.

My comment, about the divide, if you just calmed down and took a breath, is that elections historically, the majority were won reasonably comfortably by one party or another, now it's tight as tight can be. Half the country wants one thing and half the country wants the other, we don't have clear consensus, and the center is becoming a void and a gap that is widening all the time. The opposing views are becoming more extreme.

Despite disagreeing strongly about most of the claims you have made in your post, I am not engaging on them as it's a waste of time.

Personally, I think you've lost the plot and should consider taking a break from discussing this. Every time the Coalition is criticized you are like a red rag to a bull.

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#2239797 17-May-2019 10:40

networkn:

Wow, another rant. Presumably, after this, you will no longer be claiming that "Blue" is aggressive and "Red" is not. The first line puts paid to that not to mention any of the others.

My comment, about the divide, if you just calmed down and took a breath, is that elections historically, the majority were won reasonably comfortably by one party or another, now it's tight as tight can be. Half the country wants one thing and half the country wants the other, we don't have clear consensus, and the center is becoming a void and a gap that is widening all the time. The opposing views are becoming more extreme.

Despite disagreeing strongly about most of the claims you have made in your post, I am not engaging on them as it's a waste of time.

Personally, I think you've lost the plot and should consider taking a break from discussing this. Every time the Coalition is criticized you are like a red rag to a bull.

Typical. And no, no rant, already calm, no drama here. Say what you like if you cannot recognise your inability to discuss without getting antsy and petty and smart alecky, not my problem. But that's nothing new. Divide? No need to take a breath, but thanks.

Continue with your theme, others can and do discuss, take a lesson from them, they can discuss without getting petty

" a red rag to a bull." Yep, sure. If you wish to embellish issues, and run away and hide when your fallacies get corrected, or roll backl with smart comments, gee, wow, and so on, that's mature? Apparently

networkn

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#2239877 17-May-2019 12:19

The hypocrisy of that last post is breath taking.

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#2239916 17-May-2019 12:24

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/05/treasury-warned-phil-twyford-against-let-s-get-wellington-moving-package.html

Haven't the Coalition learned anything in 18 months? How many times have they announced policies that haven't been fleshed out and costed properly and it's bitten them?

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#2239921 17-May-2019 12:32

networkn:

The hypocrisy of that last post is breath taking.

You got that right. You go on and on and on about me not liking criticism of the Govt. You clearly do not comprehend posts, they disappear, as you have always had issues when others disagree with YOU.

if anyone says something about the Govt and its right or near enough, thats fine, and I might well agree, as I do,. If you wish to make stuff up, embellish a minor issue into a catastrophe, or ignore the roll on from the previous Govt as that will upset you, well fine. You dont want a balanced discussion. I have no issue with bagging the Govt, IF its accurate, and IF adding comments of the surrounding issues balances it out. But if that reduces the nagging, or includes the previous Govt then Govt, up go the hackles. That's it in a nutshell.

Lets leave it, for the sake of others here, we can easily ignore each other

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Bluntj

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#2239946 17-May-2019 13:26

networkn:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/05/treasury-warned-phil-twyford-against-let-s-get-wellington-moving-package.html

Haven't the Coalition learned anything in 18 months? How many times have they announced policies that haven't been fleshed out and costed properly and it's bitten them?

The announcement is a red herring only...a distraction from the failed kiwibuild. In fact this expenditure is so far in advance that it probably will never happen.

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#2239947 17-May-2019 13:31

Usually, when people get into trouble, they stop digging. Twford called for excavating equipment! :)

dejadeadnz

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#2240256 17-May-2019 21:15

Just a thought: can a couple of you just stop essentially turning this thread into your private bickering ground and, you know, allow real discussions to take place?

tdgeek

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#2240293 18-May-2019 07:25

For my part Im out, I'll just read the drivel and chuckle.

Rikkitic

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#2240302 18-May-2019 08:59

The only poll that counts is the election. Some voters might have been surprised by the coalition last time, but next time they will know what to expect. If any combination of the coalition wins, it will be because a majority of voters are not unhappy with their performance. In that case I hope the right wing here will cease the constant carping and just stick to legitimate and justified criticism.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Bluntj

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#2240354 18-May-2019 09:41

Rikkitic:

The only poll that counts is the election. Some voters might have been surprised by the coalition last time, but next time they will know what to expect. If any combination of the coalition wins, it will be because a majority of voters are not unhappy with their performance. In that case I hope the right wing here will cease the constant carping and just stick to legitimate and justified criticism.

The coalition didnt stand last election it was formed after. Some kind of coalition has been in power since MMP...nothing new. Next election we once again will not be voting for a coalition. As far as the "carping" goes...I could mention pots and kettles again. Those folk not agreeing with the government of the day is "legitimate and justified" criticism as this government so far have got quite a few things right, and quite a few things wrong. If you are suggesting we shouldnt be criticising then perhaps you need to move yourself to China or North Korea. Some of Labours flagship election promises have gone so far array I am surprised you are not criticising them.

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#2240477 18-May-2019 12:45

I know when the coalition was formed. So does everyone else who reads this thread. I also know how MMP works. If you are going to comment on my posts, you should actually read them.

Carping is saying again and again that the government sucks and it can’t do anything right. It is making sly digs that don’t add anything, like calling a policy a bribe and then crossing that out. Ha ha. Very clever. It is using innuendo to make something appear bad, rather than presenting a real argument. There is lots of that kind of thing here. It gets old fast.

Legitimate and justified criticism is pointing out what is wrong with a policy, or explaining why an idea is bad instead of just saying it is bad, or calling out a politician on actual failings rather than perceived character flaws. I have no real problem with any of that, though it would be nice to see some positive contributions as well. I don’t like adversarial politics and I don’t like our system of one side against another. Instead of saying something stinks, why not try saying what can we all do to make it work better? There are some fundamental philosophical disagreements between left and right, especially in the area of economics, but nearly everyone wants the same thing ultimately, which is a better country for us all. That is not hard to agree on.

Again, if you actually read my posts, you would know I am no blind supporter of this government. I have no problem agreeing that Kiwibuild is an unmitigated disaster, but I take no pleasure in that. I hope it can be salvaged in some form. At least this government was prepared to attempt such a thing.

My point was and is that if any combination of the current coalition wins enough votes at the next election to again form the government, that should be taken as convincing evidence that a majority of voters in New Zealand are not dissatisfied overall with the direction that has been taken. In that case, it should finally be time to end the carping and backbiting and moaning and instead start looking for ways to help make things work better. That is not saying everything the government does should be uncritically celebrated. If they stuff up, which they will, they need to be held to account. If ministers are incompetent, they need to be pressured to resign or be removed. If policies are wrong, they need to be critically examined. All this is part of the process of good government. But maybe ease up a little on the suggestions that the government is a headless chicken because a young woman is in charge. She has done pretty well so far.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#2240586 18-May-2019 16:22

Rikkitic:

In that case, it should finally be time to end the carping and backbiting and moaning and instead start looking for ways to help make things work better.

Opposition for the sake of opposition is a hallmark of New Zealand politics. Labour did it, National are doing it and they will both keep doing long after we are all dead. I would not expect anything less.

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