Telecom UFB launch 28th March, 2013

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › Telecom UFB launch 28th March, 2013

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#790226 1-Apr-2013 16:11

Behodar: Does anyone know what CPE is being provided? The Telecom Fibre Modem page says that it's a Pace V5542, but the Quick Install Guide for it talks about DSL (and according to Pace's site it's a VDSL device).

Edit: Looks like it might do both :)

Currently we are sending out PACE V5542s untill we secure our residential stock for modems which should be the Technicolor TG587n

rayonline

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#790613 2-Apr-2013 12:58

In regards to the note that in 2013 Telecom will move towards Fibre for voice services, for the meantime they provide a copper line. In the future, will all the phone jacks in the house still function or would we need to pay for a tech to do the additional wirings?

cbrpilot

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#790758 2-Apr-2013 15:14

rayonline: In regards to the note that in 2013 Telecom will move towards Fibre for voice services, for the meantime they provide a copper line. In the future, will all the phone jacks in the house still function or would we need to pay for a tech to do the additional wirings?

My understanding is that the home wiring will be connected into the ATA on the ONT as part of the initial installation.

My views are my own, and may not necessarily represent those of my employer.

Behodar

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#790760 2-Apr-2013 15:16

cbrpilot:
rayonline: In regards to the note that in 2013 Telecom will move towards Fibre for voice services, for the meantime they provide a copper line. In the future, will all the phone jacks in the house still function or would we need to pay for a tech to do the additional wirings?

My understanding is that the home wiring will be connected into the ATA on the ONT as part of the initial installation.

Wouldn't that break everything? Or is it somehow "double-connected" both to the ONT and to the old copper?

cbrpilot

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#790770 2-Apr-2013 15:32

Behodar:
cbrpilot:

My understanding is that the home wiring will be connected into the ATA on the ONT as part of the initial installation.

Wouldn't that break everything? Or is it somehow "double-connected" both to the ONT and to the old copper?

Sorry Behodar, the answer was only referring to connections provisioned after fibre was the transport medium for voice. Of course prior to then, copper and fibre will be completely independent.

My views are my own, and may not necessarily represent those of my employer.

Behodar

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#790785 2-Apr-2013 15:56

Serves me right for skim-reading :)

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richms

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#792022 3-Apr-2013 00:04

So there is no $$ reason for an ISP to not provide voice over the fiber network when providing data?

What will happen if the ONT ports are already in use and you order a telecom connection?

Richard rich.ms

plambrechtsen

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#792284 3-Apr-2013 12:55

richms: So there is no $$ reason for an ISP to not provide voice over the fiber network when providing data?

What will happen if the ONT ports are already in use and you order a telecom connection?

For both ATA ports on the ONT to already be used, you would have needed to order (via your RSP) Voice service on both ports.

Currently there are no providers today providing service over the ONT ports. All the other Retail UFB players (Snap/Orcon) are providing voice service in their own supplied Router / RGW. Not using the ATA's in the Chorus ONT.

So I somehow doubt there would be a problem with resource contention for the ATAs on the Chorus ONTs once Telecom's Voice over Fibre solution is ready for launch.

Publius

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#793756 5-Apr-2013 11:05

richms: So there is no $$ reason for an ISP to not provide voice over the fiber network when providing data?

What will happen if the ONT ports are already in use and you order a telecom connection?

As I understand it, the only reason ISPs use their own ATAs is because they haven't invested in the effort to use the ATA on the Chorus ONT. Basically no ISP would offer a voice-only UFB fibre product unless they could use the Chorus ATA as providing more equipment costs money.

I'm not sure what the Chorus wholesale rates are for a POTS line, but i'd guess it would be around $25/mth. So you can see why Telecoms UFB plans are more expensive than the competition -- because of the extra cost of the POTS line. Eventually when they get their act together and provide voice over fibre (over the Chorus ATA only because the fibre router they provide, Technicolor TG587n, doesn't have any ATA ports), and drop the POTS line cost, we could expect their UFB plan price to drop as well.

And in this is a very important point...
o POTS: Line rental cost for voice, plus added cost for DSL.
o UFB: Line rental for data, voice no extra cost.

So with UFB the marketing changes drastically, and I would expect ISPs to offer bundles of talking minutes free with various plan levels.

tcpdump

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#793986 5-Apr-2013 17:14

Hi,

I live in Grey Lynn, Auckland. Here and in Ponsonby most houses were built in the 1900s and have aerial power and telephone.
I've put through a request to get the 100/30 fibre and got an installation date for today.

Chorus guys came and the first thing they said: "oh, no, this is a Telecom job". Council rules say that in order to put an aerial fibre you need to take down the copper. Which is fine with me as I never used the voice line, I don't even have a phone connected. They mentioned that all ISPs will do this but not Telecom.

Apparently Telecom doesn't allow this. Chorus guys said that as long as Telecom approves the copper to go down, it's a done deal. I rang them and they said they only provide a voice+data service, I can't have data only, so, no fibre for me. This is policy and that's that.

I don't really want to get service from other ISPs as their international bandwidth is not that great. Looks like I either have to wait for Telecom to launch VoIP (which I doubt it will be anytime soon) or put an underground cable at my cost which I don't want to do.

So I'm stuck with ADSL although fibre is just 5m away from my house. If anyone from Telecom is reading this and have a different perspective, please contact me.

Thank you.

Ragnor

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#793992 5-Apr-2013 17:34

tcpdump:

I don't really want to get service from other ISPs as their international bandwidth is not that great. Looks like I either have to wait for Telecom to launch VoIP (which I doubt it will be anytime soon) or put an underground cable at my cost which I don't want to do.

People being un-wiling to vote with their wallet and change ISP is the reason Telecom can get away with lame ass™ policies like these.

Lego

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NonprayingMantis

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#793999 5-Apr-2013 17:48

Ragnor:
tcpdump:

I don't really want to get service from other ISPs as their international bandwidth is not that great. Looks like I either have to wait for Telecom to launch VoIP (which I doubt it will be anytime soon) or put an underground cable at my cost which I don't want to do.

People being un-wiling to vote with their wallet and change ISP is the reason Telecom can get away with lame ass™ policies like these.

A comment on NBR suggested that the reaosn for the policy is because of the TSO - where Telecom is STILL required to offer voice services over a fixed line (despite being separated from Chorus) The implication being that even if you dont want the copper line, Telecom is legally required to keep it until such time as they have a suitable VOIP product.

Now, I don't actually know if that is true or not (the TSO is absurdly complicated) , but it is the only argument that makes sense to me since why else would Telecom willingly incure the extra $25 or whatever to pay for a copper line that they know you are never going to use? This isn't like DSL where they will incur the cost regardless and so might as well include a landline with your broadband, this is a real incremental cost to them of keeping the copper line in place.

ETA: quote form Telecom in this nbr article comment section
http://www.nbr.co.nz/telecom-ufb-rush-ck"Under the TSO [Telecommunications Service Obligation], Telecom is obliged to make voice based services available to all households. If we were to ask Chorus to remove the copper lines (even at a customer’s specific request) we would be in breach of this agreement.

"Even if a customer is prepared to forgo the voice based portion of the service, the decision made to remove the copper line from the home may well affect future homeowners or tenants of the property, and Telecom would be deemed liable under the TSO agreement to reinstate the copper line later on. We have chosen to avoid this complication, given our Voice over Fibre product will soon be available which will clear this concern."

In other words, blame the government for the retarded TSO, not Telecom

Publius

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#794005 5-Apr-2013 18:13

tcpdump: Hi,

I live in Grey Lynn, Auckland. Here and in Ponsonby most houses were built in the 1900s and have aerial power and telephone.
I've put through a request to get the 100/30 fibre and got an installation date for today.

Chorus guys came and the first thing they said: "oh, no, this is a Telecom job". Council rules say that in order to put an aerial fibre you need to take down the copper. Which is fine with me as I never used the voice line, I don't even have a phone connected. They mentioned that all ISPs will do this but not Telecom.

Apparently Telecom doesn't allow this. Chorus guys said that as long as Telecom approves the copper to go down, it's a done deal. I rang them and they said they only provide a voice+data service, I can't have data only, so, no fibre for me. This is policy and that's that.

I don't really want to get service from other ISPs as their international bandwidth is not that great. Looks like I either have to wait for Telecom to launch VoIP (which I doubt it will be anytime soon) or put an underground cable at my cost which I don't want to do.

So I'm stuck with ADSL although fibre is just 5m away from my house. If anyone from Telecom is reading this and have a different perspective, please contact me.

Thank you.

I can highly recommend Snap! Their international bandwidth is very good. someone I know moved to them (dsl) and i'd not seen dsl perform at line speed so constantly before.

Publius

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#794006 5-Apr-2013 18:17

NonprayingMantis:
Ragnor:
tcpdump:

I don't really want to get service from other ISPs as their international bandwidth is not that great. Looks like I either have to wait for Telecom to launch VoIP (which I doubt it will be anytime soon) or put an underground cable at my cost which I don't want to do.

People being un-wiling to vote with their wallet and change ISP is the reason Telecom can get away with lame ass™ policies like these.

A comment on NBR suggested that the reaosn for the policy is because of the TSO - where Telecom is STILL required to offer voice services over a fixed line (despite being separated from Chorus) The implication being that even if you dont want the copper line, Telecom is legally required to keep it until such time as they have a suitable VOIP product.

Now, I don't actually know if that is true or not (the TSO is absurdly complicated) , but it is the only argument that makes sense to me since why else would Telecom willingly incure the extra $25 or whatever to pay for a copper line that they know you are never going to use? This isn't like DSL where they will incur the cost regardless and so might as well include a landline with your broadband, this is a real incremental cost to them of keeping the copper line in place.

ETA: quote form Telecom in this nbr article comment section
http://www.nbr.co.nz/telecom-ufb-rush-ck"Under the TSO [Telecommunications Service Obligation], Telecom is obliged to make voice based services available to all households. If we were to ask Chorus to remove the copper lines (even at a customer’s specific request) we would be in breach of this agreement.

"Even if a customer is prepared to forgo the voice based portion of the service, the decision made to remove the copper line from the home may well affect future homeowners or tenants of the property, and Telecom would be deemed liable under the TSO agreement to reinstate the copper line later on. We have chosen to avoid this complication, given our Voice over Fibre product will soon be available which will clear this concern."

In other words, blame the government for the retarded TSO, not Telecom

No, blame Telecom for not getting their act together in time to offer a voice over fibre product. Seriously. Chorus UFB has been available since June 2012 now. Thats 10 months. The Chorus ONT has been available to ISPs to test for much longer than that. At the very least they could have just done what other ISPs are happy doing -- use a CPE device with an ATA.
This is very much a Telecom problem.

NonprayingMantis

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#794015 5-Apr-2013 18:36

Publius:
NonprayingMantis:
Ragnor:
tcpdump:

I don't really want to get service from other ISPs as their international bandwidth is not that great. Looks like I either have to wait for Telecom to launch VoIP (which I doubt it will be anytime soon) or put an underground cable at my cost which I don't want to do.

People being un-wiling to vote with their wallet and change ISP is the reason Telecom can get away with lame ass™ policies like these.

A comment on NBR suggested that the reaosn for the policy is because of the TSO - where Telecom is STILL required to offer voice services over a fixed line (despite being separated from Chorus) The implication being that even if you dont want the copper line, Telecom is legally required to keep it until such time as they have a suitable VOIP product.

Now, I don't actually know if that is true or not (the TSO is absurdly complicated) , but it is the only argument that makes sense to me since why else would Telecom willingly incure the extra $25 or whatever to pay for a copper line that they know you are never going to use? This isn't like DSL where they will incur the cost regardless and so might as well include a landline with your broadband, this is a real incremental cost to them of keeping the copper line in place.

ETA: quote form Telecom in this nbr article comment section
http://www.nbr.co.nz/telecom-ufb-rush-ck"Under the TSO [Telecommunications Service Obligation], Telecom is obliged to make voice based services available to all households. If we were to ask Chorus to remove the copper lines (even at a customer’s specific request) we would be in breach of this agreement.

"Even if a customer is prepared to forgo the voice based portion of the service, the decision made to remove the copper line from the home may well affect future homeowners or tenants of the property, and Telecom would be deemed liable under the TSO agreement to reinstate the copper line later on. We have chosen to avoid this complication, given our Voice over Fibre product will soon be available which will clear this concern."

In other words, blame the government for the retarded TSO, not Telecom

No, blame Telecom for not getting their act together in time to offer a voice over fibre product. Seriously. Chorus UFB has been available since June 2012 now. Thats 10 months. The Chorus ONT has been available to ISPs to test for much longer than that. At the very least they could have just done what other ISPs are happy doing -- use a CPE device with an ATA.
This is very much a Telecom problem.

From what o understand, The other ISPs voice products e.g. genius, don't comply with the TSO(they dont have to comply of course, only telecom is restricted in that way) So using those would not have been an option.

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