Xtra email no longer receives on Outlook 2003 / Outlook 2011 for MAC

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#1706801 21-Jan-2017 08:29

If the client will not update then they lose the functionality. Not hard to understand that.

The internet is not a nice place. Keeping support for insecure software just makes it worse for everyone. Look at the number of places that do not impliment best practice for email doing stupid things like ignoring SPF records making joejob attacks so functional. Reasons I have been given for that was because it blocked too many emails from their clients who were misconfigured. Putting ease of use ahead of security is how most of this mess has happened and just saying "Ok, keep using the old piece of crap because you dont want to upgrade" puts more people at risk of spam and phishing attacks etc.

Get rid of the old software. If peoples businesses have not budgeted for IT replacement and they cannot afford it then they do not have a real business.

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#1706871 21-Jan-2017 11:56

Spong:

yitz:
Spong:

Under WinXP, I've found Mozilla Thunderbird works well for Xtra email, and strangely Outlook 2010 doesn't. Newer Outlook versions won't even install under WinXP. However Outlook 2010 continues to work fine under Win7 or later.

Thunderbird will be using its own cryptographic library while Outlook will be using the Windows Crypto API which for the Windows XP operating system may not support the required cipher strength / type.

This makes sense. However, can we trust Outlook 2010 to continue to operate with Win7 and XTRA mail? I have several clients with this combo, still working well. However, hio77 suggests Outlook 2010 is out...

@yitz's explanation lines up perfectly.

2010 i state due to what we have been informed as one of the known clients to have issues.

I have a bunch of stuff todo around the house this weekend, but if i get a chance i will happily fire up some fresh VMs load up some clients and use my testing accounts against them. Well outside of my job, however if i can provide clear proven examples then that will cut out these IFs.

The whole situation is not ideal but hey, at some point security does need to be taken seriously. Yahoo did not do this, look at all the Data leaks, the fact that their service was consistently breaking.. Moving forward it is for the best.

Yahoo email outages some days literally increase workload tenfold on the floor, i personally look forward to being on the SMX network and no longer facing this. Spark can look after the customers actually having issues a lot better when they are not chasing Yahoos tail every time problems arise.

SMX has already been put through its paces with the business email services, so i can say that as it stands at the moment the overall experience will be far better.

Can always say what if the process went through smoother no matter how little or large effect a change has caused but end of the day it has happened, Moving forward it is about correctly resolving issues.

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#1706884 21-Jan-2017 12:48

richms:

If the client will not update then they lose the functionality. Not hard to understand that.

The internet is not a nice place. Keeping support for insecure software just makes it worse for everyone. Look at the number of places that do not impliment best practice for email doing stupid things like ignoring SPF records making joejob attacks so functional. Reasons I have been given for that was because it blocked too many emails from their clients who were misconfigured. Putting ease of use ahead of security is how most of this mess has happened and just saying "Ok, keep using the old piece of crap because you dont want to upgrade" puts more people at risk of spam and phishing attacks etc.

Get rid of the old software. If peoples businesses have not budgeted for IT replacement and they cannot afford it then they do not have a real business.

This is all true, and any self respecting business won't be running Windows XP/Outlook/Xtra email.

However, there are a lot of people, particularly over 50's who are running just this combination. To simply be thrown in the deep end with no warning, and no clear way out was absolutely disgraceful in my opinion. Sure, it gives me more work, but Spark surely could have made this clear in advance, and still should be making it very clear to their customers. It seems they are still unaware of what actually works and will continue to work.

Tivo upgrades to operate with the new OzTivo EPG, support and service. Over 400 performed here so far. See: www.hillcrest.net.nz

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#1706894 21-Jan-2017 13:08

Spong:

It seems they are still unaware of what actually works and will continue to work.

in terms of support calls for this,

Agent's have very clear guidelines on how to handle this situation right now.

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kornflake

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#1706978 21-Jan-2017 13:47

Is the Spark PR dept. still on holiday?

richms

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#1706982 21-Jan-2017 14:20

Spong:

This is all true, and any self respecting business won't be running Windows XP/Outlook/Xtra email.

However, there are a lot of people, particularly over 50's who are running just this combination. To simply be thrown in the deep end with no warning, and no clear way out was absolutely disgraceful in my opinion. Sure, it gives me more work, but Spark surely could have made this clear in advance, and still should be making it very clear to their customers. It seems they are still unaware of what actually works and will continue to work.

The warning came from microsoft many years back with the release of newer operating systems and killing support off for the old ones.

Richard rich.ms

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#1707227 21-Jan-2017 21:18

Spong:
yitz:
Spong:

Under WinXP, I've found Mozilla Thunderbird works well for Xtra email, and strangely Outlook 2010 doesn't. Newer Outlook versions won't even install under WinXP. However Outlook 2010 continues to work fine under Win7 or later.

Thunderbird will be using its own cryptographic library while Outlook will be using the Windows Crypto API which for the Windows XP operating system may not support the required cipher strength / type.

This makes sense. However, can we trust Outlook 2010 to continue to operate with Win7 and XTRA mail? I have several clients with this combo, still working well. However, hio77 suggests Outlook 2010 is out...

Microsoft is still supporting outlook 2010 until 2020 which is a long way away, so isps should still be supporting it. I don't know of any other email providers who aren't, are there any examples? There will be many businesses using it. Businesses don't tend to update to the latest software versions when they are released as it is an expensive excercise which they don't want you do each time a new version is released., unless there are new features. But it is not as though outlook has had killer new features for years.

If they were droping support for an old unsupported version, such the previous example of internet explorer 6, which Microsoft stopped supporting years ago, then that could be understood. But I can't understand the reasoning for doing it for software that isn't that old and Microsoft is still providing security updates for until 2020. Or have I missed something?

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#1707231 21-Jan-2017 21:26

Outlook 2010 seems to be in a rock in a hard place, does seem to be dependnt on system support for ssl versions.

So while it may work on a newer os, xp is out the door most likely.

If a business is still running on xp they have more security concerns than just their email.

I expect it is partly bunched in there due to mac 2011 not being supported. Easier to say 2010 is not supported than add little key conditions.

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#1707242 21-Jan-2017 21:42

hio77: Outlook 2010 seems to be in a rock in a hard place, does seem to be dependnt on system support for ssl versions.

So while it may work on a newer os, xp is out the door most likely.

If a business is still running on xp they have more security concerns than just their email.

I expect it is partly bunched in there due to mac 2011 not being supported. Easier to say 2010 is not supported than add little key conditions.

As I stated in an earlier email, I've also found Outlook 2010 fails to work under WinXP with XTRA mail since last week but I have many clients currently using it within Win7/8/10 without issues. Since Outlook 2010 is still supported by Microsoft and is in very wide use, I think it would be most unwise to state "It's not supported". I don't think you'll find any other ISP with this hard-nosed attitude.

Tivo upgrades to operate with the new OzTivo EPG, support and service. Over 400 performed here so far. See: www.hillcrest.net.nz

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#1707253 21-Jan-2017 22:14

It would be a lot easier for them to simply say the Windows XP operating system is no longer supported instead of referencing mail client version.

Dropping support for RC4 128-bit encryption and effectively Windows XP should have been communicated a lot earlier on.

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#1707264 21-Jan-2017 22:59

yitz: It would be a lot easier for them to simply say the Windows XP operating system is no longer supported instead of referencing mail client version. Dropping support for RC4 128-bit encryption and effectively Windows XP should have been communicated a lot earlier on.

agreed, suspect it comes down to what is easier to understand however.

RC4 support or email client versions. the later is a heck of a lot easier to explain to the non technical.

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Darwall

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#1707413 22-Jan-2017 13:22

hio77:

yitz: It would be a lot easier for them to simply say the Windows XP operating system is no longer supported instead of referencing mail client version. Dropping support for RC4 128-bit encryption and effectively Windows XP should have been communicated a lot earlier on.

agreed, suspect it comes down to what is easier to understand however.

RC4 support or email client versions. the later is a heck of a lot easier to explain to the non technical.

So does this also mean Windows Vista (Mail app) has the same issue?

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#1707417 22-Jan-2017 13:36

Darwall:

So does this also mean Windows Vista (Mail app) has the same issue?

As far as i am aware, there is no issue with that app.

Have you spoken to the BB helpdesk about xtra mail issues with this particular client?

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#1707419 22-Jan-2017 13:38

No... Windows Vista and later operating systems will include support for AES encryption.

https://sslanalyzer.comodoca.com/?url=pop3.xtra.co.nz%3A995

https://sslanalyzer.comodoca.com/?url=pop.gmail.com%3A995

If you compare Gmail and Xtra, you will see Gmail maintains support for non-AES based TLS_RSA_WITH_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA which will primarily be for compatibility purposes for older systems e.g. Windows XP.

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#1707421 22-Jan-2017 13:40

yitz: No... Windows Vista and later operating systems will include support for AES encryption. https://sslanalyzer.comodoca.com/?url=pop3.xtra.co.nz%3A995 https://sslanalyzer.comodoca.com/?url=pop.gmail.com%3A995 If you compare Gmail and Xtra, you will see Gmail maintains support for non-AES based TLS_RSA_WITH_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA which will primarily be for compatibility purposes for older systems e.g. Windows XP.

As suspected, That's why i asked if there has been a case looked at for this.

Issue is most likely unrelated if there is a fault here

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