Alcatel-Lucent to build Telecom NZ hybrid GSM/EV-DO network

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › Alcatel-Lucent to build Telecom NZ hybrid GSM/EV-DO network

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#73970 8-Jun-2007 10:57

on2it: How many devices actually exist for 900 WCDMA?

None.

How many devices will exist for 900 WCDMA by the end of 2008? I'd guess probably somewhere close to 50%+ of all produced WCDMA capable devices. Once manufacturers start using the newer dual band or tri band WCDMA radio's in products they will become the defacto standard much like quad band GSM radio's. The only question will be whether manufacturers adopt tri band 850/900/2100MHz chipsets over dual band 850/2100 or 900/2100 chipsets.

on2it

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#73976 8-Jun-2007 11:14

Media reports Telstra are really struggling because there are so few devices available for WCDMA 850 and they've had serious quality problems.

Manufacturers go for volume

Q: where are the next big opportunities?
A: developing countries

Developong countries require ultra low-cost handsets to make the economics work e.g. $US30-40

Q: How much is the per device licensing cost for WCDMA vs GSM?

Might be a hint as to where the volume is likely to be...

Actually, I'll rephrase that - might be a hint as to whether GSM is going away any time soon

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#73978 8-Jun-2007 11:24

Oh great, this will also mean the return of SIM locked handsets.

JonC

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#73982 8-Jun-2007 11:31

on2it: Media reports Telstra are really struggling because there are so few devices available for WCDMA 850 and they've had serious quality problems.

Manufacturers go for volume

Q: where are the next big opportunities?
A: developing countries

Developong countries require ultra low-cost handsets to make the economics work e.g. $US30-40

Q: How much is the per device licensing cost for WCDMA vs GSM?

Might be a hint as to where the volume is likely to be...

Are you saying that Telecom should be giving its customers cheap handsets that were made for 3rd world countries? I don't think that's what the 3 in 3G stands for.

on2it

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#73983 8-Jun-2007 11:35

> Are you saying that Telecom should be giving its customers cheap handsets that were made for 3rd world countries?

Err, no.

JonC

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#73984 8-Jun-2007 11:56

on2it: > Are you saying that Telecom should be giving its customers cheap handsets that were made for 3rd world countries?

Err, no.

Sorry, I misread your message. It sounded like you were advocating Telecom selling handsets made for developing countries. GSM isn't going away anytime soon - but it is outdated technology.

I still have to say that WCDMA 900 will be supported by the big handset makers - http://www.nokia.com/A4136001?newsid=1103808 , http://www.nokia.com/A4136001?newsid=1087945, so it's not really that much of a gamble.

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#73985 8-Jun-2007 12:04

Nokia 900mhz WCDMA/HSDPA network

http://www.nokiasiemensnetworks.com/global/Press/Press+releases/Vodafone_New_Zealand_to_deploy_WCDMA_900.htm

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#73988 8-Jun-2007 12:40

Don't you love the irony -

In the past I have been to many a Voda presentation where CDMA was totally trashed as a technology. Now Voda has WCDMA.

On the other side I have presented many a time on the merits of CDMA over UMTS.

Now, Telecom and Vodafone 'are strange bed fellows' and they will be part of the same technology family. It is like the Russian Mafia siding with the Sicilians.

bbman

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#73989 8-Jun-2007 12:43

johnr:
Nokia 900mhz WCDMA/HSDPA network

http://www.nokiasiemensnetworks.com/global/Press/Press+releases/Vodafone_New_Zealand_to_deploy_WCDMA_900.htm

That is obviously a pushing point for TNZ to move there plans forward and announce now.

That will help VNZ some what,

Note the large TNZ site build program was brought on by these announced plans obviously and the word amoungst dealers and the like is the network will plan to be live before April next year to meet the CDMA closure in Aussi. The word is the housing rooms at each site are being geared up now and building has been under way for a some time already, un confirmed of course.

From all accounts (not the media release) the network will be nationwide WCDMA/HSDPA and GSM/EDGE and not just WCDMA in the cities on 2100 and GSM else where. But they also could go the other way in the event they roll out REV A then C nationwide as well.

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#73993 8-Jun-2007 12:55

johnr:
Nokia 900mhz WCDMA/HSDPA network

http://www.nokiasiemensnetworks.com/global/Press/Press+releases/Vodafone_New_Zealand_to_deploy_WCDMA_900.htm

Completely off topic... But isn't incredible that after the fiasco with Vodafone NZ 3G dpeloyment they still use Nokia's network services?

on2it

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#73998 8-Jun-2007 14:12

JonC> GSM isn't going away anytime soon - but it is outdated technology

If technology was a decisive winning proposition cdma2000 would have cleaned up GSM and jama's "heinous" GPRS

Network economics suggests market share is the winning proposition unless you've got a 3:1 technological advantage (e.g. CD vs LP compared with Beta vs VHS)

GSM has ~85% global market share which will partly migrate to UMTS over time although a lot of the future growth is likely to be in GSM.

Also, there are a few issues for 3G UMTS taking over the world

* Customers have hardly beaten down the doors for higher bandwidth applications like video calling

* Extraordinarily expensive spectrum licenses are going to need to be renewed in Europe over the next little while and are operators going to be once burnt, twice shy?

* Voda's CEO is reported as saying there's a real risk customers will go straight from copper landlines for voice to DSL and fibre for broadband, presumably relegating 3G to niche mobility requirements.

* Like, how are you going to stream quality video on demand or crap youtube for that matter, from a local cellsite without loads of fixed backhaul? Particularly given public resistance to cellsites. Quite a bit easier from roadside cabinets I would have thought.

* 3G wireless is inherently flaky compared with fixed data

* OK, mobile IPTV is a possibility but who knows?

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#73999 8-Jun-2007 14:31

on2it: Also, there are a few issues for 3G UMTS taking over the world

* Customers have hardly beaten down the doors for higher bandwidth applications like video calling

Video calling is hardly a 3G thing. It uses the 3G network for signaling, but that's all. Video calls are circuit switched, not packet switched.

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#74001 8-Jun-2007 14:40

Reminds me... Rev A and video calling. Guess we'll never see that now?

Juha

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#74002 8-Jun-2007 14:45

Rev A is here now? all the major centres are supposedly done with metropolitian areas done now thru Oct with all NZ completed by Dec07 dont think TC will go mobile video calling though

on2it

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#74003 8-Jun-2007 14:48

> Video calling is hardly a 3G thing.

Funnily enough I've seen mobile offers from Voda account directors stating that they have the "Real 3G" because it offers video calling (and mobile TV).

They must be technically misinformed about their own network, which wouldn't come as a huge suprise.

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