Vodafone NZ locking handsets

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#130413 12-May-2008 22:36

brentbart: Vodafone isn't just in Auckland. There are corporate Sales office in Hamilton, Wellington, ChCh and I understand there is even one (probably lonely & cold) gentleman in Dunedin ... so not store people like your Digital Mobile/First Mobile stores who deal with small companies & all the wonderful consumers. We go after the larger companies and Govt departments for instance who, to get on topic, I've yet to hear mention the locking of handsets. I'd imagine at the end of their contract period if they wanted to port 1000 users then its a considerable amount of money if the devices are locked. Good incentive to stay but possibly a bad incentive to sign. So we live in interesting times.

Ah, I see. Yes, catering to businesses and such like you would actually need to know stuff.

One point of clarification though, when I say sales peoples knowledgebase is terrible, I mean in actual Vodafone stores too (not just First/Digital Mobile stores).

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pressF1

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#130414 12-May-2008 22:36

Their world mode phones, which they only have very limited models anyway, perhaps were locked, I don't know, but that is how they possibily sourced them from their provider. Perhaps they also didn't want their customers using them on different networks around the world, otherwise they would miss out on their roaming fees.
Anyway we are taking about the future, not the past, and telecom have now commited to not locking their new phones, so perhaps that is a backdown on their previous policies, and is due to increased competition. This is great for the consumer. Hopefully the commerce commission acts on the compliants they have received about vf, as locking phones to a particular network, in a small market like NZ , which already has some of the highest mobile calling prices, will stifle competition.

Do I have to mention I work for Vodafone to post here...???

Couple of points, it would seem that Telecom has much less risk in not locking their phones. When their network goes live they will have minimum number of connxs active on the network, most users will still be on CDMA. Therefore the churn factor would be what it is now. Voda, on the other hand, will have a number of customers who (if they have quad band phone) could simply swap SIM's, take whatever incentive Telecom throws their way and moves across. Why would Vodafone not try and put barriers in place to stop that?? makes perfectly good business sense.

Secondly, I do not buy the line that locking handsets stifles competition, most of the posters on here have pointed out that $50 is not going to prevent swapping and if telecom is spending many hundreds of millions on putting the network in place they aren't going to sit back and hope people will migrate, they will have a bloody big warchest of cash to drag them in.

To be honest it will most likely be a combination of the entrance of NZC and the growth of the MVNO's which will change the landscape for the better for consumers, not Telecom deploying UMTS/GSM

my 2cents anyway

I no nothing!!

NZtechfreak

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#130419 12-May-2008 22:49

Its not so much that it stifles competition, but that its anti-competitive, rather than competitive in its outlook (if you understand the distinction I'm drawing there).

Instead of manning up and saying "well, competition, how can we improve our services and really offer value to consumers so they'll stay with us (or come to us)?", its a very base response to say "how can we try and make it difficult for people to leave, without investing anything in improving their experience?". The fact that it will prove to be relatively ineffectual, as you point out, doesn't make it any less base in its essence whatsoever. In fact, it merely betrays a lack of real thought and imagination. I would argue that in fact it is damaging perceptions of Vodafone - which is what all an anti-competitive stance can really hope to do if the competition doesn't respond in kind (Telecom isn't following suite here - guess what we like it!).

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#130492 13-May-2008 09:29

pressF1:
Secondly, I do not buy the line that locking handsets stifles competition, most of the posters on here have pointed out that $50 is not going to prevent swapping and if telecom is spending many hundreds of millions on putting the network in place they aren't going to sit back and hope people will migrate, they will have a bloody big warchest of cash to drag them in.

I think the general conclusion here is it's not about competition, it's about making more money (the $50).

JoeBloggs

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#130732 13-May-2008 22:03

I'm confused Paul, care to enlighten us lowly sales clerks as to where my terminology failed? Oh, you only have one-line-rhetoric pseudo wit and no substance? Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realise that was your job

Perhaps you should go back to Computerworld?

I really don't think I have to worry about anyone hunting me down. My views are entirely my own and I never claimed to be representing Vodafone in any manner - I simply work for the company. Although I do admire Paul's gall to appear on a forum that obviously sees through "protecting the Vodafone brand experience" for what it is. Vodafone's marketing department works very hard, only for that work to be obliterated by weak and lazy public statements. Though as I have already explained, it's not like Vodafone has to try very hard to maintain appearances... yet.

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#130742 13-May-2008 22:51

JoeBloggs: I'm confused Paul, care to enlighten us lowly sales clerks as to where my terminology failed? Oh, you only have one-line-rhetoric pseudo wit and no substance? Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realise that was your job Perhaps you should go back to Computerworld?

You are new to Geekzone so you need to be aware that personal insults are not welcomed against anyone. You can express your point of view fine without resorting to this kind of rubbish.

At the end of the day I don't agree with the reasons given either but I recognise that Paul takes his time to participate in these forums when many other telco's don't.

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#130746 14-May-2008 00:20

Whoa.. This will make juicy discussion at the meeting tomorrow. I must say you are very brave but quite possibly out of a job.
And personal insults suck.

The other thing, I cannot believe "JoeBloggs" was actually still available!

I wonder if some better Vodafone plans will come out at the end of May when the TalkerTexterMega trio end, Fingers crossed and glad it's only $40 to buy out my Mega 12 month.

Remember, You have a choice..
If you want a stock, unlocked, fully featured OEM device that is stable as a rock and you are happy to pay retail, go and see your parallel importer. (personal and known experience the phones have been perfect performers if picked wisely)
If you want the "freebee" with the plan, the locked phone will probably suit you fine until you head overseas and roaming falls over or the software falls over... (again personal and friends experience, esp Nokia and Sony ericsson customise until they were debranded.)

riahon

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#130752 14-May-2008 05:31

I think I picked up something mentioned in one post that might possibly explain to me why Telecom wont be locking their GSM handsets and that could be to do with trying to compete with VF on their bulk handset purchasing power.

At the moment Telecom bulk buy CDMA handsets with Sprint however with the GSM network I cant see them bulk buying with VFNZ so any handset purchase for Telecom is going to cost more than VF.

Therefore allowing customers to purchase their own handsets or for them to use the millions of unlocked VF handsets out there already will allow them to gather revenue from selling SIMs and providing hopefully a very competitive service.

My crystal ball tells me however that when David gets as big as Goliath then things may change, by then only geeks and the media will be dragging up this very long thread.

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#130791 14-May-2008 09:19

marmel:
JoeBloggs: I'm confused Paul, care to enlighten us lowly sales clerks as to where my terminology failed? Oh, you only have one-line-rhetoric pseudo wit and no substance? Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realise that was your job Perhaps you should go back to Computerworld?

You are new to Geekzone so you need to be aware that personal insults are not welcomed against anyone. You can express your point of view fine without resorting to this kind of rubbish.

At the end of the day I don't agree with the reasons given either but I recognise that Paul takes his time to participate in these forums when many other telco's don't.

Paul started it by calling him a liar...

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rscole86

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#130795 14-May-2008 09:31

This is your last warning people.

Keep this on topic, or it is locked.

No personal insults.

JoeBloggs

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#130896 14-May-2008 15:42

Thank you jpollock, he most certainly did start the petty retorts. As some of you may recall, I had some strong views to express and I think I did so aptly - Paul had no respite and so decided to attack my knowledge. I think that was uncalled for from a man in his position.

Nevertheless, I've said my peace.

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VFNZPaulBrislen

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#130899 14-May-2008 15:53

All I'm saying is I don't believe JoeBloggs is a Vodafone staff member.

I stand by that. But this is so far off topic now as to not be funny.

Cheers

Paul

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Vodafone

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timestyles

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#130910 14-May-2008 16:32

riahon: I think I picked up something mentioned in one post that might possibly explain to me why Telecom wont be locking their GSM handsets and that could be to do with trying to compete with VF on their bulk handset purchasing power.

Therefore allowing customers to purchase their own handsets or for them to use the millions of unlocked VF handsets out there already will allow them to gather revenue from selling SIMs and providing hopefully a very competitive service.

I was under the impression that you'll need quad band GSM phones to use Telecom's new network? I'm sure that there aren't that many out there in the wild.

Initially, back about '99 Vodafone prepay phones were subsidised and were subsequently locked. Probably due to complaints/Com. commission they then had something like "for use only with Vodafone NZ" on the outside of the box. Then they were totally free which is what we have now. So the wheel turns and soon we'll be back to locked again.

I'd like to see Dick Smiths, Noel Leeming etc selling phones advertised as "dual network" so you could use it both on Telecom and Vodafone.

The idea that a customer would confuse a sim with "Vodafone" with a sim with "Telecom" is laughable. However, I can guarantee that it will happen eventally. Phones, VCR's, computers etc confuse some people, but I think this locking is just really about either making money or stifling competition.

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#133751 28-May-2008 10:05

So it looks like Vodafone is going back to the unlocked handsets area.

However, being a Stuff article, make sure you read it quickly because it may be removed soon. Also there are lots of comments from other telcos - but none from Vodafone...

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freitasm

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#133752 28-May-2008 10:07

freitasm: So it looks like Vodafone is going back to the unlocked handsets area.

However, being a Stuff article, make sure you read it quickly because it may be removed soon. Also there are lots of comments from other telcos - but none from Vodafone...

I just got a confirmation from Paul Brislen on this topic and that's correct, Vodafone have stopped the handset locking policy.

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