Red Peak to be added as a 5th option on the referendum

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#1396534 29-Sep-2015 12:10

Red Peak has grown on me.

That said, I'll probably just vote to keep the flag we have if I bother voting at all.

I laughed out loud at the whole swastika ordeal in the house. On the bright side, we now know that parliment have discovered the wonders of geometry. We are in better hands now.

Michaelfjs

70 posts

Master Geek

#1396557 29-Sep-2015 12:32

Kyanar: People should be left to decide based on simply seeing them. Hell, the government should maybe produce a few of them and rotate them on key buildings in all the major cities and see what people think seeing them actually flying. It'd be a hell of a lot cheaper than the current process, and a neat way to give people a chance to make their own minds up rather than having a bunch of people on Facebook and Twitter deciding for them.

How would it be cheaper? If anything it would be more expensive as they would have to buy lots of new flags and put them up. And there would still need to be a referendum.

MikeAqua

7773 posts

Uber Geek

#1396584 29-Sep-2015 13:23

To my eyes red-peak looks like it has been cobbled together from off-cuts.

It also looks like one unit from a zig-zag pattern that has been zoomed in on too far.

Somehow hard geometric shapes at that scale need detail or texture.

It's the opposite of busy - in a bad way.

Mike

Kyanar

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#1396698 29-Sep-2015 16:12

Dratsab:
My theory, based on absolutely nothing, is that if Aaron Dustin's flag comes out on top in the referendum he will offer a royalty-free licence to the NZ Government on the proviso he retains all copyright in respect of non-governmental use, thus guaranteeing an income stream* for many years to come.

Wouldn't work. If they win, they are required to assign copyright to "Her Majesty The Queen In Right of the Government of New Zealand" or whatever fanciful title it appears as on legal documents. He wouldn't be able to make a business of it (and rightly so. Anyone who attempts to exploit the people of New Zealand shouldn't be allowed to enter at all. It's definitely very UnKiwi to try and rip off your country like that. Follow Australia's example and strip their citizenship hah!)

Michaelfjs:
How would it be cheaper? If anything it would be more expensive as they would have to buy lots of new flags and put them up. And there would still need to be a referendum.

There would still need to be a referendum, yes. But there'd be so much savings on flag panels, unscientific polls, media coverage. Why, adding Red Peak to the referendum apparently cost half a million on its own!

And I wouldn't say "lots" of flags. More like a few for each major city (for the most part, like it or not, each major city appears on TV enough in an average day for the smaller cities and towns to see it). It would certainly be better for the democratic process than the current cluster... fudge.

Paul1977

5039 posts

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#1396711 29-Sep-2015 16:48

Kyanar:
Paul1977:
bazzer: One of the main points that seems to have been made in Red Peak's favour is that it's more "flag-like". The problem is, they hand pick a bunch of "flaggy" looking flags to compare them to. If you look through all the world's flags, heaps of them do not use "simple geometric shapes, and careful attention to lines of symmetry".

Yeah, but heaps of guys wear those pants with the crotch way down by their knees too. Doesn't mean they look good.

I think the point he's trying to make is more that they decided what the definition of a flag was, then chose a bunch of them that looked like they met their favoured definition. When in reality such a definition excludes such flags as New Zealand's, the USA, Canada, Australia, Angola, Algeria, Bhutan, Malaysia, Gibraltar, Papua New Guinea, Uruguay, Swaziland, Sri Lanka, Wales, Turkmenistan, Tuvalu, Northern Ireland, Macau, Nepal, Fiji... you get the picture. In fact I'd say there's even numbers of "flaggy" by their definition flags that there are complex flags, or asymmetrical flags. Almost like they made up the definition of a flag to fit their agenda! Fancy that!

Yes, they clearly picked the ones that support their argument. But at the same time, a lot of flags are awful and would have benefited from following similar guidelines.

Kyanar

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#1396753 29-Sep-2015 18:48

DravidDavid:

That said, I'll probably just vote to keep the flag we have if I bother voting at all.

True that. Red Peak just wouldn't look as cool in that signature bar you have!

bluedisk

226 posts

Master Geek

#1396818 29-Sep-2015 20:26

Kyanar:Why, adding Red Peak to the referendum apparently cost half a million on its own!.

It cost around $400,000 to include Red Peak, money well spent to give people a decent option that isn't a fern derivative. This is a small price for democracy.

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#1397222 30-Sep-2015 11:16

bluedisk: It cost around $400,000 to include Red Peak, money well spent to give people a decent option that isn't a fern derivative. This is a small price for democracy.

But it's not democracy, and it's not a small price to pay. In the public polling, 31 other options did better than Red Peak. This is what you Red Peak supporters keep missing.

Now that there's precedent, every other designer who missed the cut can have a moan and expect the government to shell out another half a mill to add theirs to the referendum.

jarledb

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#1397370 30-Sep-2015 14:33

Kyanar:
But it's not democracy, and it's not a small price to pay. In the public polling, 31 other options did better than Red Peak.

Source? A poll is not a democratic process, btw. If I do a poll of 10 people outside of my house - its not going to be significant for what people in New Zealand thinks of anything.

There is a reason we don't just use polls to elect goverments...

Now that there's precedent, every other designer who missed the cut can have a moan and expect the government to shell out another half a mill to add theirs to the referendum.

Not likely. The reason Red Peak was included was that there was a lot of people that spoke up and wanted it. An undemocratic process would have ignored them, allowing Red Peak to be included because of massive support seems very democratic to me.

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Kyanar

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#1397684 1-Oct-2015 02:06

jarledb:

Not likely. The reason Red Peak was included was that there was a lot of people that spoke up and wanted it. An undemocratic process would have ignored them, allowing Red Peak to be included because of massive support seems very democratic to me.

Except there's evidence that the petition demanding it be added was rigged. To be honest, I'm more scared of petitions on change.org influencing the government than I am of hypnoflag.

jarledb

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#1397689 1-Oct-2015 04:10

Kyanar:
jarledb:

Not likely. The reason Red Peak was included was that there was a lot of people that spoke up and wanted it. An undemocratic process would have ignored them, allowing Red Peak to be included because of massive support seems very democratic to me.

Except there's evidence that the petition demanding it be added was rigged. To be honest, I'm more scared of petitions on change.org influencing the government than I am of hypnoflag.

I'm guessing that evidence lives together with the polling results you referred to earlier and still have not produced?

Paul1977

5039 posts

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#1397804 1-Oct-2015 10:35

bluedisk:
Kyanar:Why, adding Red Peak to the referendum apparently cost half a million on its own!.

It cost around $400,000 to include Red Peak, money well spent to give people a decent option that isn't a fern derivative. This is a small price for democracy.

I'm all for red Peaks inclusion, but can anyone enlighten me on why it's inclusion will cost any more money at all? Unless the referendum papers had already been printed, what is the extra cost?