GST to be charged on purchases below $400

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Awrrr
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#2007132 3-May-2018 14:12

Back to the difference in prices for a moment, I pretty much stopped buying almost anything on TradeMe because I got sick of the inflated rural delivery charges. Maybe there are good reasons for this. Maybe it is someone else's fault. I don't know and I don't really care. What I do know is that I often make small purchases, a cable or connector, something costing just two or three dollars, and traders here want $6 or more to send it to my rural address. I have heard that some do this to try to bypass TradeMe's increased success charges. That doesn't matter to me. What matters is that the cost of delivery is often more than the cost of the item.

Oh right, being rural is so much farther away and costs so much more to deliver to. Except that it doesn't. Regular post is almost never available as a delivery option but that is precisely how unsigned courier items are delivered. They are all brought by our regular rural postie, no difference whatsoever in the service, just the enormously inflated cost of it.

If I buy the item from Aliexpress instead, it is not only cheaper to start with, it comes to my rural address free of any delivery or postage charge. In my experience, it also often gets here faster than parcels from Auckland. Under these circumstances, I can't think of any possible reason for wanting to buy local. 15% extra is nothing compared to the rural delivery rip-off.

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surfisup1000

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#2007138 3-May-2018 14:20

networkn:

surfisup1000:

Duty on shoes is a bit off though. Time to leave the past I think. We'll never have a thriving shoe industry, don't have the style or the cheap labour costs.

Sadly you are dreaming if you think that this Government is going to remove ANY form of Taxes or Tarrifs, in fact they will just use wordplay to add more.

It supports your argument that the govt will not remove shoe duties but it was introduced on the concept of protecting the local industry. This clearly did not work and it is unlikely that there will be a revival in the domestic shoe manufacturing so they should remove it.

Although, maybe there are some niche shoe manufacturers still here.

Someone at EY has cottoned onto the fact that costs skyrocket once you go $1 over $400. I'm not sure why it is more relevant now, has always been there.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12044309

networkn

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#2007161 3-May-2018 14:38

Rikkitic:

networkn:

Sadly you are dreaming if you think that this Government is going to remove ANY form of Taxes or Tarrifs, in fact they will just use wordplay to add more.

Boring.

You stick to your "interesting" hope and I'll stick to my "boring" facts.

Each to their strengths!

Rikkitic

Awrrr
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#2007164 3-May-2018 14:43

Try sticking to one thread.

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MikeB4

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#2007432 3-May-2018 19:47

Jeez you two need to get a room, maybe with punching bags

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

shk292

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#2007440 3-May-2018 20:05

Rikkitic:

Back to the difference in prices for a moment, I pretty much stopped buying almost anything on TradeMe because I got sick of the inflated rural delivery charges. Maybe there are good reasons for this. Maybe it is someone else's fault. I don't know and I don't really care. What I do know is that I often make small purchases, a cable or connector, something costing just two or three dollars, and traders here want $6 or more to send it to my rural address. I have heard that some do this to try to bypass TradeMe's increased success charges. That doesn't matter to me. What matters is that the cost of delivery is often more than the cost of the item.

Oh right, being rural is so much farther away and costs so much more to deliver to. Except that it doesn't. Regular post is almost never available as a delivery option but that is precisely how unsigned courier items are delivered. They are all brought by our regular rural postie, no difference whatsoever in the service, just the enormously inflated cost of it.

If I buy the item from Aliexpress instead, it is not only cheaper to start with, it comes to my rural address free of any delivery or postage charge. In my experience, it also often gets here faster than parcels from Auckland. Under these circumstances, I can't think of any possible reason for wanting to buy local. 15% extra is nothing compared to the rural delivery rip-off.

I also find that annoying although I'm not rural

I assume that sellers who sell lots of items can't be bothered going to the post office to send them, so they insist on couriers who can collect from their premises - and the buyer gets hit with the cost

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Rikkitic

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#2007456 3-May-2018 20:40

shk292:

I assume that sellers who sell lots of items can't be bothered going to the post office to send them, so they insist on couriers who can collect from their premises - and the buyer gets hit with the cost

Fair enough. So is deciding not to buy from them.

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MichaelNZ

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#2007458 3-May-2018 20:41

I run an e-commerce retail business in New Zealand. If the rhetoric of some posters here was to be believed, it should massively benefit me because I am an evil and greedy retailler, right?

I disagree with both their claims and I also was against this change for the following reasons:

1. New Zealand is not the only country trying to introduce this. The UK and Canada are already there and Switzerland and other EU countries are heading that way.

While in theory this tax change may benefit my business for the domestic market, other countries doing the same could hurt me for exports.

2. Aliexpress, etc, are relying on a agreement made a long time ago between the postal services of the world, and in cahoots with China, Hong Kong and Singapore post, they are massively taking advantage of this. New Zealand Post is loosing on the deal (It's rather disengenious to blame falling letter volumes), as are many other postal services around the world, so it's quite foeseeable this could change.

If the Asian bulk retaillers were forced to pay the real cost of delivering their merchandise (as retailers in other countries are), the landed price of many items would skyrocket.

3. I offer the products exstock in New Zealand, pay tax in New Zealand, support other local businesses through my business purchases and spend my own income locally. New Zealand is not a cheap country to do business.

4. Trying to get Asian companies to comply with this will be an exercise in futility. If it comes down to it, they may just stop shipping to NZ for much the same reason as I don't ship to Russia. Not enough business and too difficult.

Now, what will happen to my business with this increased push towards economic nationalism and governments fighting over who gets to tax on any trade?

I have thought a lot about this and unfortunately, a possible end result will be my business is forced overseas to a country (or bloc of countries) where there is a lot larger domestic marketplace. This will mean export dollars gone, the money I spend with local businesses gone, and the money I personally spend locally, gone as well. If it comes down to it I will move my business and ship customer's orders back to New Zealand.

The other angle to this is compliance with tax demands of overseas authorities. This may include countries I have never had any economic relationship with and never even visited. The NZ government is obviously trying to get what they believe is "their share" but have they considered what will happen to New Zealand businesses who export to other countries? Clearly not. Traditionally the onus has been on the customer to meet local tax rules (In NZ's case Customs, Duty and GST) and for good reason.

I can't keep up with every country (where I am willing to ship to) demands and because of this, it again incentivises a move to a larger domestic marketplace.

Again, another incentive to move overseas.

I hope this contributes to this discussion. As a local retailer, I have thought this through and I am against the changes.

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rugrat

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#2007511 3-May-2018 21:29

I agree.
Exporting items looks like it’s going to be a lot messier.
Have to deal in multiple currency’s for different governments and send it off at right time.

Be tidier if people could pay GST in own country. Only have their own currency to worry about.
But then it’s messier for govts as a lot more customers to deal with then businesses.

If they try to enforce it, I’m wondering how many businesses will say stuff it and just not export to NZ, especially with the size of our country compared to others.

tdgeek

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#2007574 4-May-2018 05:44

MichaelNZ:

I run an e-commerce retail business in New Zealand. If the rhetoric of some posters here was to be believed, it should massively benefit me because I am an evil and greedy retailler, right?

I disagree with both their claims and I also was against this change for the following reasons:

1. New Zealand is not the only country trying to introduce this. The UK and Canada are already there and Switzerland and other EU countries are heading that way.

While in theory this tax change may benefit my business for the domestic market, other countries doing the same could hurt me for exports.

2. Aliexpress, etc, are relying on a agreement made a long time ago between the postal services of the world, and in cahoots with China, Hong Kong and Singapore post, they are massively taking advantage of this. New Zealand Post is loosing on the deal (It's rather disengenious to blame falling letter volumes), as are many other postal services around the world, so it's quite foeseeable this could change.

If the Asian bulk retaillers were forced to pay the real cost of delivering their merchandise (as retailers in other countries are), the landed price of many items would skyrocket.

3. I offer the products exstock in New Zealand, pay tax in New Zealand, support other local businesses through my business purchases and spend my own income locally. New Zealand is not a cheap country to do business.

4. Trying to get Asian companies to comply with this will be an exercise in futility. If it comes down to it, they may just stop shipping to NZ for much the same reason as I don't ship to Russia. Not enough business and too difficult.

Now, what will happen to my business with this increased push towards economic nationalism and governments fighting over who gets to tax on any trade?

I have thought a lot about this and unfortunately, a possible end result will be my business is forced overseas to a country (or bloc of countries) where there is a lot larger domestic marketplace. This will mean export dollars gone, the money I spend with local businesses gone, and the money I personally spend locally, gone as well. If it comes down to it I will move my business and ship customer's orders back to New Zealand.

The other angle to this is compliance with tax demands of overseas authorities. This may include countries I have never had any economic relationship with and never even visited. The NZ government is obviously trying to get what they believe is "their share" but have they considered what will happen to New Zealand businesses who export to other countries? Clearly not. Traditionally the onus has been on the customer to meet local tax rules (In NZ's case Customs, Duty and GST) and for good reason.

I can't keep up with every country (where I am willing to ship to) demands and because of this, it again incentivises a move to a larger domestic marketplace.

Again, another incentive to move overseas.

I hope this contributes to this discussion. As a local retailer, I have thought this through and I am against the changes.

it should massively benefit me because I am an evil and greedy retailler, right?

Silly statement

I offer the products exstock in New Zealand, pay tax in New Zealand, support other local businesses through my business purchases and spend my own income locally.

So? Are you looking for sympathy?

I have thought a lot about this and unfortunately, a possible end result will be my business is forced overseas to a country (or bloc of countries) where there is a lot larger domestic marketplace.

No. Your issue is countries apply a GST/VAT tax, you dont want that. What you mean is set only to countries who dont apply the tax

What you want is not an even playing field. Taxes in whatever fprm are a countries income to supply its services to its citizens. I assume you understand that but you dont want it if it inconveniences you.

surfisup1000

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#2007608 4-May-2018 08:44

tdgeek:

Silly statement

So? Are you looking for sympathy?

I assume you understand that but you dont want it if it inconveniences you.

Do you actively seek to cause offense?

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tdgeek

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#2007612 4-May-2018 08:51

surfisup1000:

tdgeek:

Silly statement

So? Are you looking for sympathy?

I assume you understand that but you dont want it if it inconveniences you.

Do you actively seek to cause offense?

My points are perfectly valid. All three.

sleemanj

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#2007680 4-May-2018 09:59

Rikkitic:

(...) I often make small purchases, a cable or connector, something costing just two or three dollars, and traders here want $6 or more to send it to my rural address.

To send to your rural address, untracked post, for the smallest package, that is $6.40 NZ Post will charge the seller, $2.70 for the DLE postage label, and $3.70 for the rural upgrade - NZ Post started charging rural for even untracked parcels a couple months back (although they are letting ones without rural tickets slide by until July, so the rumor goes).

To send to your rural address with CourierPost tracked using Trademe's Book A Courier will cost from memory $5.35 for a DLE package (the rural surcharge is not split out, but urban is $2.43 or so). Yes it is now the cases that for TradeMe sellers it is (at least for DLE sizes, what I deal with), cheaper to send to your rural address Tracked, Signature Required CourierPost than it is to send untracked standard post.

Both of those prices are of course not including packaging materials etc, just the raw postage.

So, sorry, but "traders here want $6 or more" is frankly insulting to traders, it's NZ Post and other couriers who want to charge $6 or more to deliver to your rural address.

As somebody else indicated, the reason that international packages can get to your door out in the wop wops for essentially free is down to the way international mail works, while I understand there have been recent adjustments made to the way it's charged by the UPU, I think you will find that in the case of a large volume imbalance (lots of small parcels incoming, not many outgoing) it's the receiving postal carrier that gets landed with the majority of the costs and they are unable to pass that on to you.

---
James Sleeman
I sell lots of stuff for electronic enthusiasts...

MichaelNZ

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#2007683 4-May-2018 10:05

My business has commercial accounts with 2 courier companies. Around $5 is the starting price for a small item delivered to a rural delivery address.

Many years ago I would send a lot of items by NZ Post. TBH the delivery time was only slightly longer than a courier and the cost a lot less. The gap has now closed and is some instances surpassed the cost of using a courier.

For the last few years we have almost exclusively used courier. The only exceptions are a very small number of customers in remote locations.

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Rikkitic

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#2007699 4-May-2018 10:38

sleemanj:

So, sorry, but "traders here want $6 or more" is frankly insulting to traders, it's NZ Post and other couriers who want to charge $6 or more to deliver to your rural address.

As somebody else indicated, the reason that international packages can get to your door out in the wop wops for essentially free is down to the way international mail works, while I understand there have been recent adjustments made to the way it's charged by the UPU, I think you will find that in the case of a large volume imbalance (lots of small parcels incoming, not many outgoing) it's the receiving postal carrier that gets landed with the majority of the costs and they are unable to pass that on to you.

Sorry to be insulting to traders but the point I am making is how it looks to me as a rural customer, not how it got that way or whose fault it is. If I buy a dohicky on TradeMe, it costs around $6 (or more) just to have it sent to me. If I buy it on Aliexpress, my total cost is probably a third or less of that on TradeMe. It is a no-brainer.

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