car accident.. am i liable?

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#683198 8-Sep-2012 20:09

I'm a little confused.. (I'm from Auckland)

Looking at the 2nd link you gave it looks like the left hand side CAN go straight. There are no markings on the road which say you cannot and the road going straight has 2 lanes in it?

If you go back once you'll see there is on the left hand line straight ahead and on the right hand lane is straight ahead and right.

What says the trunk in the left hand lane can go right as it looks like it did (go forward a few times)

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#683199 8-Sep-2012 20:09

That's a fascinating intersection.

If you look at the approach from Kilmore Street (travelling East to West), you can see that the left lane is clearly marked as forward travelling, whereas the right lane is marked as forward and right turning.

However, if you look at the approach from Cranmer Square (as you appear to have been travelling from), the right lane is marked as travelling a dogleg right into Montreal Street; and the left lane is marked as travelling a dogleg right into Montreal Street and left turning.

As I interpret it when you are travelling from Kilmore Street you can only turn right into Montreal Street from the right lane (and can travel straight on Kilmore Street). However, if you are approaching from Cranmer Square you can only turn right from the right lane and cannot continue left onto Kilmore Street.

I can understand how you got confused, however it still seems to me that you're at fault as the permitted direction of travel is directed by the green sign on the right.

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#683201 8-Sep-2012 20:13

KevinL: That's a fascinating intersection.?

If you look at the approach from Kilmore Street (travelling East to West), you can see that the left lane is clearly marked as forward travelling, whereas the right lane is marked as forward and right turning.

However, if you look at the approach from Cranmer Square (as you appear to have been travelling from), the right lane is marked as travelling a dogleg right into Montreal Street; and the left lane is marked as travelling a dogleg right into Montreal Street and left turning.

As I interpret it when you are travelling from Kilmore Street you can only turn right into Montreal Street from the right lane (and can travel straight on Kilmore Street). ?However, if you are approaching from Cranmer Square you can only turn right from the right lane and cannot continue left onto Kilmore Street.

I can understand how you got confused, however it still seems to me that you're at fault as the permitted ?direction of travel is directed by the green sign on the right.

Exactly my reading of the intersection. +1.

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#683202 8-Sep-2012 20:14

(Edit your post and use the the url BBCode tags to shorten those links... long lines tend to mess up the whole thread.)

Bit nasty that there are no arrows on the road there and the lane markings don't help much either; that green sign is clear, but not much else to guide a person through that one. I can sort of see why it happened.

Not sure who would be liable on this one though. TBH if you were insured this might be one of those cases where the insurance companies get together and lay blame on both parties. Given you have no insurance though you've got noone to go to bat for you :-/ So yeah... get insurance! Also if you're in a crash in the future, make sure you look at the damage to both vehicles! Preferably take photos with your phone or something.

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mjb

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#683203 8-Sep-2012 20:16

LennonNZ: I'm a little confused.. (I'm from Auckland)

Looking at the 2nd link you gave it looks like the left hand side CAN go straight. There are no markings on the road which say you cannot and the road going straight has 2 lanes in it?

If you go back once you'll see there is on the left hand line straight ahead and on the right hand lane is straight ahead and right.

What says the trunk in the left hand lane can go right as it looks like it did (go forward a few times)

in the second picture, truck can go straight on Kilmore, or right into montreal. the key is in the green sign on the right, and the road markings, (both) in the first picture.

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sidefx

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#683205 8-Sep-2012 20:19

mjb:
in the second picture, truck can go straight on Kilmore, or right into montreal. the key is in the green sign on the right, and the road markings, (both) in the first picture.

The sign I buy, but those road markings are useless!! The arrows seem to be at different angles and if you're in the right lane you have to look at the markings in the lane NEXT to you to know what to do; which probably had a bus over it in this case. :P

Very poorly marked IMO.

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#683206 8-Sep-2012 20:21

If you were travelling up Montrel then you are in the the wrong. Easy mistake though, I've seen a few cars try to carry on down Kilmore in the right lane. Usually tourists who don't see the signs.

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sidefx

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#683207 8-Sep-2012 20:24

Is this an optical illusion or are they actually like this:

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mjb

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#683208 8-Sep-2012 20:24

sidefx: The sign I buy, but those road markings are useless!! ?The arrows seem to be at different angles and if you're in the right lane you have to look at the markings in the lane NEXT to you to know what to do; which probably had a bus over it in this case. :P

Very poorly marked IMO.

Oh, agreed, certainly. it's confusing, but if you have all of the information as presented, you can work out what the roading designer intended.

There's sadly not much recourse for the OP though.. according to the signage and markings, he was still in the wrong...

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#683210 8-Sep-2012 20:27

sidefx: Is this an optical illusion or are they actually like this:

bad vantage due to the trees, but try from above

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LennonNZ

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#683211 8-Sep-2012 20:28

I don't think I've ever seen an unmarked road like this.

Still confusing for people who have never driven around there. Maybe this road has been like this all the time (or after the earthquake changed?) but wouldn't it be better to have better road markings to make it clear?

I wonder how many accidents at this intersection?

mjb

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#683213 8-Sep-2012 20:31

LennonNZ: but wouldn't it be better to have better road markings to make it clear?

I don't think you can - the short section of Kilmore between cranmar and montreal has to be left devoid of markings due to the fact there are two sets of rules (for both lanes) based on which way you enter the intersection (from kilmore, or cranmar)

It's about as clear as it can be, without a complete re-design.

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sidefx

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#683214 8-Sep-2012 20:36

mjb:

bad vantage due to the trees, but try from above

Yeah, also if you go a bit forward and look back it does look like an optical illusion. And that green sign is pretty clear.

I'm sure they could improve the road markings as you go into the intersection though. I'm pretty sure I go through a couple of similar intersections locally, I just can't recall where... but I think they're better marked.

(EDIT: OK I missed the part where from the other direction you can go straight from that lane; WOW, that is one bizarre and confusing intersection. TBH, I think a redesign is just what it needs...)

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LennonNZ

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#683215 8-Sep-2012 20:37

I think I see (Maybe)

If you are coming from Kilmore left hand lane can go straight only and right hand can go straight or right onto montreal.

If you are coming from Cranmer left hand side can go straight or right onto montreal and right hand lane can only go right onto montreal.

KevinL

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#683240 8-Sep-2012 21:46

Yes, the rules are slightly different depending on how you approach the intersection so lane markings at the intersection itself wouldn't actually be that helpful.

If were up to me, I'd stick a big roundabout in or even better just realign the road through the middle of the park.

In any case, I suspect it would be difficult to defend his position and I'd say the bus company has every right to pursue costs.

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