ZOMG we need those anti-terror surveillance laws right now!

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Mad Scientist
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#1182502 25-Nov-2014 06:46

BlueShift:
gsr:
joker97:
networkn: They are also typically the ones who don't "believe" in immunisation.

Comparing Ebola and the flu is probably not the best idea anyway.

True - Flu is far more virulent, and kills thousands more than Ebola, and is a far, far more realistic danger to the health and life of anybody you know.

hmm .. didn't know that http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/63498558/Flu-victims-son-urges-vaccines-for-all

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#1182505 25-Nov-2014 07:20

joker97:
hmm .. didn't know that http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/63498558/Flu-victims-son-urges-vaccines-for-all

Oh yes, flu can be serious business.

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Mark

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#1182531 25-Nov-2014 08:38

SaltyNZ: According to these guys, terrorism deaths are as high as 10 people a year. Well... in some places. Not here. Actually, here there haven't been any. But still: 10 people a year, in places far far away. John Key, get right on that please. I'm so very frightened.

Can you please shut up about things you know feck all about!

Do you know what it's like living in an environment where you have to check under your car before every trip ? Do you know what it's like seeing you parents crying because their friend got blown up ? Have you had your school evacuated multiple times ? Was you first thought for many years when hearing thunder was to wonder if it was a bomb ? Have you done that for a large percentage of your life ?
Well I have, it sucks, it's not fun and when you are a kid it IS frightening!

I'm all for spying on you, me and everyone if it finds that one unhinged moron who wants to please the voices in his head!

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#1182546 25-Nov-2014 08:46

heylinb4nz: In Israel its 10 innocent Palestinians a day...but no calls or moves from US to instill anti-terror laws there. More about taking rights away from Joe public, gotta wonder who is driving it all.

You mean they need a law to say "stop firing rockets over the border to kill random Israelis"? I would have thought that is self-evident. Once they stop firing the rockets and tunneling under the border to plant bombs, the innocent deaths should slow down

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#1182551 25-Nov-2014 08:58

Mark:
Well I have, it sucks, it's not fun and when you are a kid it IS frightening!

So I assume that's why you moved here, where you don't need to worry about those things?

But even if not, the fact is that wholesale spying does not prevent terrorism. Stop panicking for one second and think about it. The CIA already knew who the 9/11 bombers were ... they did their thing anyway. The underwear bomber's father point blank told the FBI he was dangerous, and they left him alone to do his thing. The Russian intelligence services told the FBI about the Boston bombers, and they were left alone to do their thing. If security services can be told straight up someone is an imminent threat and they are still left alone to go ahead and blow things up, why would you expect randomly spying on people would be useful?

I have no problem with targeted surveillance against people whom there is a very good reason to watch. But I don't see why I should give anyone the power to go through my underwear drawers just on the off-chance there might be a bad person hiding somewhere in New Zealand. It's an invasion of privacy, it's a waste of money, and it's a distraction from doing things that are actually useful.

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MikeB4

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#1182564 25-Nov-2014 09:13

SaltyNZ:
Mark:
Well I have, it sucks, it's not fun and when you are a kid it IS frightening!

So I assume that's why you moved here, where you don't need to worry about those things?

But even if not, the fact is that wholesale spying does not prevent terrorism. Stop panicking for one second and think about it. The CIA already knew who the 9/11 bombers were ... they did their thing anyway. The underwear bomber's father point blank told the FBI he was dangerous, and they left him alone to do his thing. The Russian intelligence services told the FBI about the Boston bombers, and they were left alone to do their thing. If security services can be told straight up someone is an imminent threat and they are still left alone to go ahead and blow things up, why would you expect randomly spying on people would be useful?

I have no problem with targeted surveillance against people whom there is a very good reason to watch. But I don't see why I should give anyone the power to go through my underwear drawers just on the off-chance there might be a bad person hiding somewhere in New Zealand. It's an invasion of privacy, it's a waste of money, and it's a distraction from doing things that are actually useful.

psst psst..... guess what? you are not that important they don't care about you, or me either.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1182567 25-Nov-2014 09:19

KiwiNZ:

psst psst..... guess what? you are not that important they don't care about you, or me either.

Rubbish, I'm the famous SaltyNZ. Why do you think I had to move to Warkworth? Those damn paparazzi just won't leave me alone!

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MikeB4

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#1182569 25-Nov-2014 09:22

SaltyNZ:
KiwiNZ:

psst psst..... guess what? you are not that important they don't care about you, or me either.

Rubbish, I'm the famous SaltyNZ. Why do you think I had to move to Warkworth? Those damn paparazzi just won't leave me alone!

Be careful agent 13 is there, that tree near the Roast Inn hmmm is it really just a tree ?

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Geektastic

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#1182571 25-Nov-2014 09:25

As I have said before, terrorists look for easy targets.

To their eyes, most white european types are 'western infidels' - and of course, Islam clearly discriminates between believers and non-believers and explains what should happen to those who won't convert.

It is highly likely that if it becomes too hard to cause chaos in places like the US or UK, the loonies will look around the world for softer targets. It won't take them long to discover that NZ is about the softest of the lot. We do not even have much in the way of armed forces with which to retaliate either.

Better to take some steps now and head such things off at the pass than wait until after the first bombing at Eden Park.

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#1182576 25-Nov-2014 09:29

Geektastic: As I have said before, terrorists look for easy targets.

To their eyes, most white european types are 'western infidels' - and of course, Islam clearly discriminates between believers and non-believers and explains what should happen to those who won't convert.

It is highly likely that if it becomes too hard to cause chaos in places like the US or UK, the loonies will look around the world for softer targets. It won't take them long to discover that NZ is about the softest of the lot. We do not even have much in the way of armed forces with which to retaliate either.

Better to take some steps now and head such things off at the pass than wait until after the first bombing at Eden Park.

yep, we have no way to stop any aircraft, we have very limited ability to move our Armed forces around NZ, We have limited maritime detection.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Geektastic

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#1182578 25-Nov-2014 09:31

KiwiNZ:
Geektastic: As I have said before, terrorists look for easy targets.

To their eyes, most white european types are 'western infidels' - and of course, Islam clearly discriminates between believers and non-believers and explains what should happen to those who won't convert.

It is highly likely that if it becomes too hard to cause chaos in places like the US or UK, the loonies will look around the world for softer targets. It won't take them long to discover that NZ is about the softest of the lot. We do not even have much in the way of armed forces with which to retaliate either.

Better to take some steps now and head such things off at the pass than wait until after the first bombing at Eden Park.

yep, we have no way to stop any aircraft, we have very limited ability to move our Armed forces around NZ, We have limited maritime detection.

And just how easy would it be for someone to conceal a suicide vest under a Rugby 7's costume? Heck, some security staff are so dumb you could probably not bother concealing it and tell them it was your 'Osama Costume' and they would just let you in laughing.

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#1182580 25-Nov-2014 09:36

Geektastic: As I have said before, terrorists look for easy targets.

To their eyes, most white european types are 'western infidels' - and of course, Islam clearly discriminates between believers and non-believers and explains what should happen to those who won't convert.

It is highly likely that if it becomes too hard to cause chaos in places like the US or UK, the loonies will look around the world for softer targets. It won't take them long to discover that NZ is about the softest of the lot. We do not even have much in the way of armed forces with which to retaliate either.

Better to take some steps now and head such things off at the pass than wait until after the first bombing at Eden Park.

I hear what you're saying, but 'retaliation' doesn't work either. If it did, we'd be all over terrorism by now. Our War on Terrorism has been running for 13 years without any result. If anything, it's worse. Two entire World Wars were fought and settled in less time. In the UK they fought against Northern Irish terrorism for a long time. But it didn't really start to improve until people actually sat down and decided to end the cycle of violence. I know, I know, it's not completely over, but it wasn't 'more violence' that got it where it is today. It was less. And in a generation or two, the new norm will be 'no violence' and then it will be over.

Retaliation against muslim extremism is if anything even less likely to work. Yes, there are nutters out there. But there have always been nutters out there and there always will be. Turning ourselves into a low-budget version of Soviet Russia won't benefit anyone.

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SaltyNZ

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#1182593 25-Nov-2014 09:42

KiwiNZ:

yep, we have no way to stop any aircraft, we have very limited ability to move our Armed forces around NZ, We have limited maritime detection.

We should get a few of these to go with the Orions.

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MikeB4

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#1182598 25-Nov-2014 09:53

SaltyNZ:
KiwiNZ:

yep, we have no way to stop any aircraft, we have very limited ability to move our Armed forces around NZ, We have limited maritime detection.

We should get a few of these to go with the Orions.

The world has changed since Aunty Helen had a hissy fit with the RNZAF and I believe it is time we reinvested a limited air cover ability which includes more maritime patrol Aircraft and Fighter Wing. We also need to provide the Army with more Transport ability and a protected APC

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

ajobbins

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#1182776 25-Nov-2014 13:07

In my unprofessional opinion, anyone who thinks that mass surveillance is the cure for terrorism or will protect you from it is deluded.

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