Do you want the flag to stay as it is?

Forums › Off topic › Do you want the flag to stay as it is?

1 | ... | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23

tdgeek

29746 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1522098 29-Mar-2016 10:26

dafman:

Focusing on the positive. Now that the beach towel is officially done and dusted, has it cleared the way for the only proper new NZ flag to rise again at some point in our future ... ?

Now thats a cool towel! :-)

I don't like it as our flag though. Its simple, and good, but it looks more like a logo (It is actually, a North American company) You can't hang it downwards as it will look odd. That was also a criticsm of the new flag. But the main thing is that its too abstract. It doesnt say NZ to anyone. Unless you get told that the white is I guess a mountain. I dont know what the red means. The blue is leftover from the current flag? Black? That's a sports colour not our national colour, or does it mean night?

Depends if a flag is to be taken by foreigners as NZ. JK wanted the flag to be more like modern NZ. I prefer it to be seen as clearly a Kiwi flag

Design wise it is good. Simple, elegant, not busy.

old3eyes

9120 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#1522111 29-Mar-2016 10:47

dafman:

Focusing on the positive. Now that the beach towel is officially done and dusted, has it cleared the way for the only proper new NZ flag to rise again at some point in our future ... ?

You must be joking. The Red Peak Engineering company flag. Go away.

Regards,

Old3eyes

andrew027

1286 posts

Uber Geek

#1522151 29-Mar-2016 11:36

I voted for the old flag because I didn't much like the proposed new flag and for no other reason. Not because it may or may not have been a John Key vanity project, or because the process was flawed, or because I was unhappy about how much money was spent on it. If we ever get to flag changing time again, I hope we go about it differently.

The first step should be to determine whether we want to change the flag at all: "Do you support changing the New Zealand national flag if an acceptable design is found that has the support of a majority of New Zealanders?" Apparently we didn't do this because you can't ask people if they want to change if they don't know what you plan changing it to. I think this argument is rubbish. It's like being asked "Would you like to go out and see a movie if there's nothing good on TV?" It's OK to answer yes or no without yet having the detail. I might say no because I'm not feeling well, or don't want to spend the money, or have something else I need to do, or have a personal grudge against the owners of the local cinema. I might say yes in principle, then find there's a football game I'd like to watch on TV, or nothing good at the local multiplex, and decide to stay home after all. There will be people who will say no at this point for all sorts of reasons and that's their right. And it's OK to say yes at this point but vote for the current flag later if you don't like any of the proposed designs. But if the yes vote doesn't get a clear majority at this point then that's it - the end of the flag change debate (until next time, because there will be a next time).

The second step should be to come up with the short list of new flag options. Ask the public for input as to what being a New Zealander means to them, what symbols have meaning for them, what they think New Zealand stands for as a country, etc. Let the public submit designs if they want to. Then have some proper designers who understand vexillology come up with a bunch of designs and put them up online. Don't put the public submissions online - let's face it, laser-eyed kiwi and hokey pokey ice cream cone were fun but they were never going on the flag. Categorise the designs and get people to vote in each category, e.g. one silver fern, one koru, one Southern Cross, one kiwi, one standard three stripe design... whatever makes it through the design process. In my opinion, one of major flaws of the first referendum (until the late addition of Red Peak) was that we had three silver ferns and one koru. If you didn't want the silver fern you were effectively stuffed at that point. At the end of the design process you should have the short list of significantly different designs.

The third step should be to have the (say) five most popular designs plus the current flag in one vote.

tdgeek

29746 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1522164 29-Mar-2016 12:05

andrew027:

I voted for the old flag because I didn't much like the proposed new flag and for no other reason. Not because it may or may not have been a John Key vanity project, or because the process was flawed, or because I was unhappy about how much money was spent on it. If we ever get to flag changing time again, I hope we go about it differently.

The first step should be to determine whether we want to change the flag at all: "Do you support changing the New Zealand national flag if an acceptable design is found that has the support of a majority of New Zealanders?" Apparently we didn't do this because you can't ask people if they want to change if they don't know what you plan changing it to. I think this argument is rubbish. It's like being asked "Would you like to go out and see a movie if there's nothing good on TV?" It's OK to answer yes or no without yet having the detail. I might say no because I'm not feeling well, or don't want to spend the money, or have something else I need to do, or have a personal grudge against the owners of the local cinema. I might say yes in principle, then find there's a football game I'd like to watch on TV, or nothing good at the local multiplex, and decide to stay home after all. There will be people who will say no at this point for all sorts of reasons and that's their right. And it's OK to say yes at this point but vote for the current flag later if you don't like any of the proposed designs. But if the yes vote doesn't get a clear majority at this point then that's it - the end of the flag change debate (until next time, because there will be a next time).

The second step should be to come up with the short list of new flag options. Ask the public for input as to what being a New Zealander means to them, what symbols have meaning for them, what they think New Zealand stands for as a country, etc. Let the public submit designs if they want to. Then have some proper designers who understand vexillology come up with a bunch of designs and put them up online. Don't put the public submissions online - let's face it, laser-eyed kiwi and hokey pokey ice cream cone were fun but they were never going on the flag. Categorise the designs and get people to vote in each category, e.g. one silver fern, one koru, one Southern Cross, one kiwi, one standard three stripe design... whatever makes it through the design process. In my opinion, one of major flaws of the first referendum (until the late addition of Red Peak) was that we had three silver ferns and one koru. If you didn't want the silver fern you were effectively stuffed at that point. At the end of the design process you should have the short list of significantly different designs.

The third step should be to have the (say) five most popular designs plus the current flag in one vote.

Good points. If the Govt pushed for a period of just discussion, it might get more buy in, I felt it didnt engage the people, so all we heard was the vocal side. The media jumped on it, and helped to to be a side show. But thats the media

1 | ... | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23