Woooaaahh earthquake 2016-11-14

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#1673389 18-Nov-2016 09:49

MikeB4:

hoping for a quiet day.

Yes, I can understand that, so here's hoping, at least the Government is saying that a Civil Defence overhaul is inevitable after all the tsunami confusion so this must be a step in the right direction!

There was complete confusion, for example, in Lower Hutt where the sirens went continuously for more than half an hour, but they were activated nearly 3 hours after the earthquake, which must surely have been too late?

So, before, during, and after the sirens had sounded, we tuned in to Newstalk ZB Wellington but there were no instructions about whether it was necessary to evacuate or not in north Lower Hutt. Some of the time while we were listening to Newstalk ZB, there were commercials, can you believe it, commercials at a time of so-called crisis! Was National Radio any better, at least there wouldn't have been commercials?

The sirens were sounding loudly many kilometres north of Petone Beach, say at least 10k north, yet people were jumping into their cars and clogging up the roads driving north (and up hills) to nowhere because they thought a tsunami might swallow up the whole of the Hutt Valley! So did the tsunami alert apply just to within 2 or 3k of the coast, or even up as far as 10k north of the coast?

And the tsunami alert apparently wasn't lifted until late Monday afternoon and some people were frightened to go back to their homes in Lower Hutt until this alert was lifted!

Incidentally, rest homes in the Wellington district don't seem to have been evacuated, even Rita Angus which is quite close to Lyall Bay!

So, I agree with the Government that a Civil Defence overhaul must surely be inevitable!

tdgeek

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#1673395 18-Nov-2016 10:00

frednz:

MikeB4:

hoping for a quiet day.

Yes, I can understand that, so here's hoping, at least the Government is saying that a Civil Defence overhaul is inevitable after all the tsunami confusion so this must be a step in the right direction!

There was complete confusion, for example, in Lower Hutt where the sirens went continuously for more than half an hour, but they were activated nearly 3 hours after the earthquake, which must surely have been too late?

So, before and after the sirens had sounded, we tuned in to Newstalk ZB Wellington but there were no instructions about whether it was necessary to evacuate or not in Lower Hutt. Some of the time while we were listening to Newstalk ZB, there were commercials, can you believe it, commercials at a time of so-called crisis! Was National Radio any better, at least there wouldn't have been commercials?

The sirens were sounding loudly many kilometres north of Petone Beach, say at least 8k north, yet people were jumping into their cars and clogging up the roads driving north (and up hills) to nowhere because they thought a tsunami might swallow up the whole of the Hutt Valley!

And the tsunami alert apparently wasn't lifted until late Monday afternoon and some people were frightened to go back to their homes in Lower Hutt until this alert was lifted!

Incidentally, rest homes in the Wellington district don't seem to have been evacuated, even Rita Angus which is quite close to Lyall Bay!

So, I agree with the Government that a Civil Defence overhaul must surely be inevitable!

There needs to be an emergency radio station. Create an easy to remember AM and FM station, say 1000 for AM and 100 for FM

Create an SMS alert where people can register, to get an evacuation and alert mechanism.

Comms is everything, surely these two easy to setup means would bridge a lot of gaps. Phone alerts and 24/7 non ads info

networkn

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#1673399 18-Nov-2016 10:02

tdgeek:

There needs to be an emergency radio station. Create an easy to remember AM and FM station, say 1000 for AM and 100 for FM

Create an SMS alert where people can register, to get an evacuation and alert mechanism.

Comms is everything, surely these two easy to setup means would bridge a lot of gaps. Phone alerts and 24/7 non ads info

Agreed, however registration requires interaction and the adoption rate of this would be quite low in my experience.

FM 111

AM 1111

would be the logical ones, then even kids would remember it.

tdgeek

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#1673404 18-Nov-2016 10:06

networkn:

tdgeek:

There needs to be an emergency radio station. Create an easy to remember AM and FM station, say 1000 for AM and 100 for FM

Create an SMS alert where people can register, to get an evacuation and alert mechanism.

Comms is everything, surely these two easy to setup means would bridge a lot of gaps. Phone alerts and 24/7 non ads info

Agreed, however registration requires interaction and the adoption rate of this would be quite low in my experience.

FM 111

AM 1111

would be the logical ones, then even kids would remember it.

True, and good numbers.

At least registration is not crucial, but it would help a lot of people. The radio would help everyone. Those that don't bother registering or don't bother getting a $20 hand held battery radio, we can biarcth about the local Govt, but we do also need to take ownership.

geoffwnz

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#1673408 18-Nov-2016 10:11

frednz:

The sirens were sounding loudly many kilometres north of Petone Beach, say at least 10k north, yet people were jumping into their cars and clogging up the roads driving north (and up hills) to nowhere because they thought a tsunami might swallow up the whole of the Hutt Valley! So did the tsunami alert apply just to within 2 or 3k of the coast, or even up as far as 10k north of the coast?

Didn't the Japan one go anything up to 10km inland?
I guess it's going to depend on a few factors, mainly the size of the tsunami and the type of land. Relatively flat land for miles from the coast and it could potentially push quite far inland. Vs say, Horokiwi, where a few hundred metres inland and you are a considerable height above sea level already.

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#1673411 18-Nov-2016 10:14

This is genuinely a good idea and should have been implemented years ago. We usually turn to RNZ but I wouldn't know where to go for local coverage. All we ever get is rock, religion and commercials, mainly the latter.

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#1673416 18-Nov-2016 10:29

I think RNZ is on 101.1 or 101.3 in most places which isn't hard to remember and their coverage on Sunday night and into Monday morning was excellent, especially with Susie Fergusson rushing to the studio to help out Vicki McKay who had been disrupted by the earthquake while reading the news.

However they broadcast whatever confused instructions they received from Civil Defence; first no tsunami risk at all, then an instruction to evacuate all southern coastlines, then later an instruction to evacuate eastern coastlines with ambiguity as to whether southern coastlines were still at risk.

frednz

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#1673417 18-Nov-2016 10:30

geoffwnz:

frednz:

The sirens were sounding loudly many kilometres north of Petone Beach, say at least 10k north, yet people were jumping into their cars and clogging up the roads driving north (and up hills) to nowhere because they thought a tsunami might swallow up the whole of the Hutt Valley! So did the tsunami alert apply just to within 2 or 3k of the coast, or even up as far as 10k north of the coast?

Didn't the Japan one go anything up to 10km inland?
I guess it's going to depend on a few factors, mainly the size of the tsunami and the type of land. Relatively flat land for miles from the coast and it could potentially push quite far inland. Vs say, Horokiwi, where a few hundred metres inland and you are a considerable height above sea level already.

I think you have to take into account that the height of Lower Hutt above sea level is about 10 metres so this might slow a tsunami down a bit? Also, Petone Beach is not an open ocean, it has a very narrow harbour entrance point through which the ferries etc travel. So, perhaps a tsunami entering Wellington Harbour may not be as serious as a tsunami approaching the southern coast of Wellington?

In any event, let's assume that a major tsunami could travel 18k north from Petone beach and swallow up the whole of Petone and the Hutt Valley. The sirens sounded nearly three hours after the big earthquake, was this soon enough or would we all have been under water by then from the first tsunami?

Now here's another point, imagine what would happen if everyone in Petone and Lower Hutt had decided to evacuate! There would have been chaos as traffic snarl-ups would have prevented fast enough progress. At our place, the power went out during the big quake and we couldn't easily open the auto garage door manually! I think in Wellington Mount Victoria was complete chaos as so many cars blocked each other trying to get up and down.

DaveB

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#1673419 18-Nov-2016 10:30

frednz:

MikeB4:

hoping for a quiet day.

Yes, I can understand that, so here's hoping, at least the Government is saying that a Civil Defence overhaul is inevitable after all the tsunami confusion so this must be a step in the right direction!

There was complete confusion, for example, in Lower Hutt where the sirens went continuously for more than half an hour, but they were activated nearly 3 hours after the earthquake, which must surely have been too late?

So, before, during, and after the sirens had sounded, we tuned in to Newstalk ZB Wellington but there were no instructions about whether it was necessary to evacuate or not in north Lower Hutt. Some of the time while we were listening to Newstalk ZB, there were commercials, can you believe it, commercials at a time of so-called crisis! Was National Radio any better, at least there wouldn't have been commercials?

The sirens were sounding loudly many kilometres north of Petone Beach, say at least 10k north, yet people were jumping into their cars and clogging up the roads driving north (and up hills) to nowhere because they thought a tsunami might swallow up the whole of the Hutt Valley! So did the tsunami alert apply just to within 2 or 3k of the coast, or even up as far as 10k north of the coast?

And the tsunami alert apparently wasn't lifted until late Monday afternoon and some people were frightened to go back to their homes in Lower Hutt until this alert was lifted!

Incidentally, rest homes in the Wellington district don't seem to have been evacuated, even Rita Angus which is quite close to Lyall Bay!

So, I agree with the Government that a Civil Defence overhaul must surely be inevitable!

tdgeek

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#1673421 18-Nov-2016 10:32

alasta:

I think RNZ is on 101.1 or 101.3 in most places which isn't hard to remember and their coverage on Sunday night and into Monday morning was excellent, especially with Susie Fergusson rushing to the studio to help out Vicki McKay who had been disrupted by the earthquake while reading the news.

However they broadcast whatever confused instructions they received from Civil Defence; first no tsunami risk at all, then an instruction to evacuate all southern coastlines, then later an instruction to evacuate eastern coastlines with ambiguity as to whether southern coastlines were still at risk.

CD is going to be under review now, so get info to be readily and easily available, then the best information after the CD review should tidy that up, then we are in a much better position. Pity it took three major events over 6 years

Edit, plus 2013 in Welly/Seddon

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#1673423 18-Nov-2016 10:35

frednz:

MikeB4:

hoping for a quiet day.

Yes, I can understand that, so here's hoping, at least the Government is saying that a Civil Defence overhaul is inevitable after all the tsunami confusion so this must be a step in the right direction!

There was complete confusion, for example, in Lower Hutt where the sirens went continuously for more than half an hour, but they were activated nearly 3 hours after the earthquake, which must surely have been too late?

So, before, during, and after the sirens had sounded, we tuned in to Newstalk ZB Wellington but there were no instructions about whether it was necessary to evacuate or not in north Lower Hutt. Some of the time while we were listening to Newstalk ZB, there were commercials, can you believe it, commercials at a time of so-called crisis! Was National Radio any better, at least there wouldn't have been commercials?

The sirens were sounding loudly many kilometres north of Petone Beach, say at least 10k north, yet people were jumping into their cars and clogging up the roads driving north (and up hills) to nowhere because they thought a tsunami might swallow up the whole of the Hutt Valley! So did the tsunami alert apply just to within 2 or 3k of the coast, or even up as far as 10k north of the coast?

And the tsunami alert apparently wasn't lifted until late Monday afternoon and some people were frightened to go back to their homes in Lower Hutt until this alert was lifted!

Incidentally, rest homes in the Wellington district don't seem to have been evacuated, even Rita Angus which is quite close to Lyall Bay!

So, I agree with the Government that a Civil Defence overhaul must surely be inevitable!

I don't think they did anything wrong in Lower Hutt. The Hutt Valley is a wide alluvial plain with a large river that has a wide estuary, there is also another wide stream. At the river mouth there is a fuel terminal and large petrol and oil storage tanks.

The valley has a gentle rise up most of it with high hills each side that will funnel and tsunami or surge. The river could take a surge quite a distance up cause the river to breach its banks.

Here is the tsunami map for Hutt.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1673425 18-Nov-2016 10:39

tdgeek:

frednz:

MikeB4:

hoping for a quiet day.

Yes, I can understand that, so here's hoping, at least the Government is saying that a Civil Defence overhaul is inevitable after all the tsunami confusion so this must be a step in the right direction!

There was complete confusion, for example, in Lower Hutt where the sirens went continuously for more than half an hour, but they were activated nearly 3 hours after the earthquake, which must surely have been too late?

So, before and after the sirens had sounded, we tuned in to Newstalk ZB Wellington but there were no instructions about whether it was necessary to evacuate or not in Lower Hutt. Some of the time while we were listening to Newstalk ZB, there were commercials, can you believe it, commercials at a time of so-called crisis! Was National Radio any better, at least there wouldn't have been commercials?

The sirens were sounding loudly many kilometres north of Petone Beach, say at least 8k north, yet people were jumping into their cars and clogging up the roads driving north (and up hills) to nowhere because they thought a tsunami might swallow up the whole of the Hutt Valley!

And the tsunami alert apparently wasn't lifted until late Monday afternoon and some people were frightened to go back to their homes in Lower Hutt until this alert was lifted!

Incidentally, rest homes in the Wellington district don't seem to have been evacuated, even Rita Angus which is quite close to Lyall Bay!

So, I agree with the Government that a Civil Defence overhaul must surely be inevitable!

There needs to be an emergency radio station. Create an easy to remember AM and FM station, say 1000 for AM and 100 for FM

Create an SMS alert where people can register, to get an evacuation and alert mechanism.

Comms is everything, surely these two easy to setup means would bridge a lot of gaps. Phone alerts and 24/7 non ads info

As I said earlier, the US has a system that forcibly sends messages and loud tones to every cellphone on all the networks simultaneously. Why can't we adopt that? Clearly the tech already exists.

As to radio, many people do not have radios - they use the internet these days rather than FM or AM (kids today probably barely even know it exists outside the internet!) and many places in NZ have lousy reception, especially on FM. Here at our house in Martinborough for example, RNZ is virtually unlistenable on FM.

tdgeek

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#1673428 18-Nov-2016 10:45

Geektastic:

As I said earlier, the US has a system that forcibly sends messages and loud tones to every cellphone on all the networks simultaneously. Why can't we adopt that? Clearly the tech already exists.

As to radio, many people do not have radios - they use the internet these days rather than FM or AM (kids today probably barely even know it exists outside the internet!) and many places in NZ have lousy reception, especially on FM. Here at our house in Martinborough for example, RNZ is virtually unlistenable on FM.

Bit negative. If you want a single solution that works for everyone, it doesn't exist

Not everyone has a mobile

Not everyone has a 100% charged mobile all the time

If in these days of earthquake preparedness a $20 hand held radio isn't an option, fine, dont blame anyone if your not aware of the latest emergency news

Internet isn't much good if its down

alasta

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#1673430 18-Nov-2016 10:48

Geektastic:

As I said earlier, the US has a system that forcibly sends messages and loud tones to every cellphone on all the networks simultaneously. Why can't we adopt that? Clearly the tech already exists.

As to radio, many people do not have radios - they use the internet these days rather than FM or AM (kids today probably barely even know it exists outside the internet!) and many places in NZ have lousy reception, especially on FM. Here at our house in Martinborough for example, RNZ is virtually unlistenable on FM.

At home I do all of my radio listening via Bose Soundtouch, but I have always had a small cheap AM/FM radio with spare batteries in my backpack so that I can use it in emergencies at home or work. It was only about $20 at Jaycar so there is no excuse for not having one as part of a household emergency plan.

RNZ National is available on AM, and that may be useful if the big one hits Wellington because it may be necessary to get a signal from Titahi Bay if Kaukau and/or Fitzherbert get knocked out.

Rikkitic

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#1673432 18-Nov-2016 10:48

That is why AM exists. As a backup and for emergencies. We have several battery radios. I keep one in a drawer for when the power goes out. Another in the emergency kit. Others for the hell of it. I could even make a crystal set if I had to.

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