Despair - Why aren't we protecting our kids!

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#1564491 2-Jun-2016 19:20

MikeB4:
surfisup1000:

networkn:

surfisup1000:

networkn:

surfisup1000:

Talk about jumping to conclusions!!!!!

Can you think of a single good reason for a 2 year old to have sustained gunshot injuries?

Happens quite often in the states. I shouldn't need to explain as it so obvious .... gun accidents do happen. Sibling plays with gun/ child plays with gun/ or gun accidentally discharges.

To assume it is a case of child abuse is a little over the top.

Pfft, it's child abuse if you leave a LOADED gun where a child can get access to it.

As per the TOPIC, you are FAILING TO PROTECT YOUR CHILD if you leave them with access to a gun.

/me shakes my head.

If I let my child climb a tree at the park that has 'no climbing' sign and the child climbs it and breaks their arm is that child abuse?

I don't think so...stupidity yes, but not abuse.

Abuse to me me is not feeding the child, or beating them. That is intentionally causing harm to the child.

If this case the child finds a hidden gun and kills themself or a sibling then it is more of an accident as noone intended the child to be harmed.

Firearms MUST be stored in approved lockers with ammunition stored separately.

ex zachary.

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#1564557 2-Jun-2016 20:21

Geektastic:

Beats me why people have them if they aren't committed to looking after them and to the vast expense that comes with them.

That said, I have been often amazed by people I know with them who appear surprised at the costs etc in time as well as money. I have none, fortunately, but I am perfectly capable of working out the inputs required without actually having to do a practical experiment to verify...!

I think most people add the numbers up, but until one has one, it is not tangible.

Eg, they don't realise suddenly their income is halved with expense doubled ... = 4X the pain.

And they don't realise productivity drops ... because neither is sleeping, at all, or together.

Etc etc ....

gzt

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#1564563 2-Jun-2016 20:33

nathan: Where is the leadership from this segment of NZ society

Oh do a March or a Hikoi, it will all be ok

What 'segment' of society might you be referring to?

I don't really like to say it but I have to tell you that flippant comment comes across as a bit racist.

No ethnicity is reported in that story and if it was it would probably be irrelevant.

There is nothing to gain from segmenting people and their problems and everything to lose.

MikeB4

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#1564569 2-Jun-2016 20:46

nathan: Where is the leadership from this segment of NZ society

Oh do a March or a Hikoi, it will all be ok

I can answer from a professional perspective, the problem goes across all society in NZ. This country has a very poor record of providing a safe environment for our young.

Geektastic

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#1564663 3-Jun-2016 00:12

joker97:

Geektastic:

Beats me why people have them if they aren't committed to looking after them and to the vast expense that comes with them.

That said, I have been often amazed by people I know with them who appear surprised at the costs etc in time as well as money. I have none, fortunately, but I am perfectly capable of working out the inputs required without actually having to do a practical experiment to verify...!

I think most people add the numbers up, but until one has one, it is not tangible.

Eg, they don't realise suddenly their income is halved with expense doubled ... = 4X the pain.

And they don't realise productivity drops ... because neither is sleeping, at all, or together.

Etc etc ....

Surely, obvious? No harder than evaluating the running costs of different cars!

School fees - 15 years at average of $30,000

Food - 20 years at average of say $100/week

Clothing at say $1000 a year

Holidays at say $1000 a year

and so on.

Can't be THAT hard to work out. Perhaps the government should have lessons in it for people at school?

Geektastic

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#1564664 3-Jun-2016 00:15

tdgeek:

MikeB4:
surfisup1000:

networkn:

surfisup1000:

networkn:

surfisup1000:

Talk about jumping to conclusions!!!!!

Can you think of a single good reason for a 2 year old to have sustained gunshot injuries?

Happens quite often in the states. I shouldn't need to explain as it so obvious .... gun accidents do happen. Sibling plays with gun/ child plays with gun/ or gun accidentally discharges.

To assume it is a case of child abuse is a little over the top.

Pfft, it's child abuse if you leave a LOADED gun where a child can get access to it.

As per the TOPIC, you are FAILING TO PROTECT YOUR CHILD if you leave them with access to a gun.

/me shakes my head.

If I let my child climb a tree at the park that has 'no climbing' sign and the child climbs it and breaks their arm is that child abuse?

I don't think so...stupidity yes, but not abuse.

Abuse to me me is not feeding the child, or beating them. That is intentionally causing harm to the child.

If this case the child finds a hidden gun and kills themself or a sibling then it is more of an accident as noone intended the child to be harmed.

Firearms MUST be stored in approved lockers with ammunition stored separately.

ex zachary.

Charge seems to be illegal possession of a firearm amongst others, so where they should be stored and how is probably not top of mind to the average criminal...

As is commonly observed, firearm ownership rules are only generally observed by the law abiding.

Geektastic

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#1564665 3-Jun-2016 00:16

tdgeek:

Geektastic:

Beats me why people have them if they aren't committed to looking after them and to the vast expense that comes with them.

That said, I have been often amazed by people I know with them who appear surprised at the costs etc in time as well as money. I have none, fortunately, but I am perfectly capable of working out the inputs required without actually having to do a practical experiment to verify...!

Can you clarify who "them" are?

children....

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#1564692 3-Jun-2016 06:20

Geektastic:

joker97:

Geektastic:

Beats me why people have them if they aren't committed to looking after them and to the vast expense that comes with them.

That said, I have been often amazed by people I know with them who appear surprised at the costs etc in time as well as money. I have none, fortunately, but I am perfectly capable of working out the inputs required without actually having to do a practical experiment to verify...!

I think most people add the numbers up, but until one has one, it is not tangible.

Eg, they don't realise suddenly their income is halved with expense doubled ... = 4X the pain.

And they don't realise productivity drops ... because neither is sleeping, at all, or together.

Etc etc ....

Surely, obvious? No harder than evaluating the running costs of different cars!

School fees - 15 years at average of $30,000

Food - 20 years at average of say $100/week

Clothing at say $1000 a year

Holidays at say $1000 a year

and so on.

Can't be THAT hard to work out. Perhaps the government should have lessons in it for people at school?

That is easy math - it's called addition, completely transparent, credit in the expense account.

But the hidden math is in the debit section of liability and equity.

- sickness, breakages, seeing specialists/waiting in ED for half a day every few months, house/car/holiday modification - temporary, ever evolving, swimming lessons etc, cancellation/last minute booking/paying babysitter to have any kind of entertainment, etc

- loss of income by at least 50% not withstanding increase in expenses hidden and transparent (partner not working, plus breadwinner having to decrease productivity to help out at home on demand, unscheduled) causing rise in tax percentage (2 person earning 25k each is taxed lower than 1 person earning 50k) & inability to invest / miss the boat eg if you put back buying a house in auckland by 1 year you lose $100k, 3 years $300k, 10 years $1 mil. multiply that by the compound interest or extra rental rises.

I'm sorry the math you provide does not even scratch the surface of the cost of having children. Of course, once in a while, a pushing parent produces a Lydia Ko, Bill Gates, Ella Yelich-O'Connor ... but I'd say that's the exception rather than the rule. I don't know the proportion of kids will "pay back" their parents but that I didn't factor in, so, I may have dropped the ball there

[PS i didn't include - the price of happiness and company however, esp in one's old age when money is not important but how one dies transcends knowledge and power]

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#1564697 3-Jun-2016 06:46

But it's worth it!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/parenting/baby/80564822/woman-falls-pregnant-with-husbands-baby-after-his-death

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#1564699 3-Jun-2016 06:54

networkn:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11649450

2 Year old dead in South Auckland, as a result of a gunshot, and a 25 year old is being spoken to by police.

It's almost more than I can bear, how do people even contemplate harming children. I know this thread doesn't change anything, but I felt such helplessness *AGAIN* over the harm people do to kids!

You have summed up my feelings on this one.

Edited to remove my assumption.

surfisup1000

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#1564701 3-Jun-2016 07:04

dickytim:

networkn:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11649450

2 Year old dead in South Auckland, as a result of a gunshot, and a 25 year old is being spoken to by police.

It's almost more than I can bear, how do people even contemplate harming children. I know this thread doesn't change anything, but I felt such helplessness *AGAIN* over the harm people do to kids!

You have summed up my feelings on this one.

How does one shoot a 2 year old with a sawn off shot gun? - or any child.

Are you saying it was an adult who intentionally shot the child?

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#1564703 3-Jun-2016 07:07

Anyone spoken to Sue Bradford lately to find out how her anti-smacking law is working out?

Auto-correct is why I have crust issues.

MikeB4

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#1564710 3-Jun-2016 07:39

floydbloke:
Anyone spoken to Sue Bradford lately to find out how her anti-smacking law is working out?

Doing something may help, doing nothing won't help.

dickytim

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#1564711 3-Jun-2016 07:40

floydbloke:

Anyone spoken to Sue Bradford lately to find out how her anti-smacking law is working out?

It was delusional to think this bill would change anything, all it did was make parents afraid to use reasonable discipline.

I don't know that there is an government answer to this problem until as one community we decide this is not good enough and stop accepting excuses for violence in any form.

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#1564749 3-Jun-2016 08:44

As a disclaimer, I haven't read a full story on this case yet so everything I'm writing here is speculation and just my opinion, but that said: I understand from radio news articles that (1) police removed a sawn-off shotgun from the property, (2) a man has been charged with unlawful possession of a pistol (a cut-down shotgun or rifle can be classified as a pistol), and (3) nobody at the house held a firearms licence.

Personally I have never seen the attraction of firearms. Some people use them as a tool, e.g. farmers with a rabbit or possum problem, or hunters. I don't even mind people who collect firearms because they have some kind of fascination with them. But I expect people to act within the law, i.e. to have the appropriate licence, have pistols or military weapons properly registered, and take appropriate steps to secure weapons and ammunition. But as a sawn-off shotgun is not suitable for hunting or suburban pest control, I can't think of a single good (read: law-abiding) reason anybody needs one.

So why is someone illegally in possession of a sawn-off shotgun? The first assumption I jump to is: were they planning to use it in a robbery, or maybe holding it for someone else dodgy who didn't want to be caught with it? Or perhaps they felt threatened and took their protection into their own hands? We may find out more over the next few days, but surely whatever reason you have it, (1) you keep it securely locked away, particularly if you have kids in the house, and (2) you never keep it loaded on your property, or have the ammunition with the firearm so someone else could easily load it.

Child abuse? No. We have plenty of that in this country and some of it is horrific - I still cry every time I read about what Mia Glassie was subjected to. Negligence? Yes. Possibly criminal negligence (IANAL so I'm not sure of the legal distinction). Somebody has done a stupid thing, and a child has paid the ultimate price for it. Of course, in America this tragedy would change nothing. Unfortunately, I doubt it will do much here either.

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