Good riddance to Obama and his drones. Pakistani villagers will be saying the same.

Forums › Off topic › Good riddance to Obama and his drones. Pakistani villagers will be saying the same.

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#1707051 21-Jan-2017 18:01

Pumpedd:

Without drones there would be many many more casualties.

And you assert this on what basis? Your personal opinion at best.

For those that are interested, here's a link to a recent BBC podcast documentary on America's use of drones.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04nydqj

Rikkitic

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#1707052 21-Jan-2017 18:18

Doesn't work.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Stan

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#1707061 21-Jan-2017 18:46

Pumpedd:

Stan:

dejadeadnz:

Stan: Completely agree. I hope Trump is alot less interventionist than the Obama administration.

Yes, let's have a wonderful world where people like Assad get to run amok. The underlying sentiment and naivete behind your belief that Trump somehow trying to make a better relationship with Russia is a good thing is so revealing also.

This would be a great thing if Trump came from a standpoint of understanding the fundamental tenets of a liberal democracy and sought to improve US relations with Russia on the basis of maintaining the clear moral superiority of the rule of law, respect for human rights, and rejection of the kind of horrible personal attributes that Vladimir Putin, the dictator of Russia, so thoroughly display. And face facts: even amongst conservative institutions that are hardly known for their love of the Democrats (i.e. the CIA and FBI - you did see how the head of the FBI blackballed Hillary Clinton, right?), there are strongly expressed sentiments that Putin/Russia has Trump compromised. This suspicion also aligns with the extraordinarily unusual behaviour of two "leaders" with vastly different strategic interests for their respective countries engaging in an almost totally choreographed bromance dance, especially for the Trump campaign/administration that quite frankly the facts tell us couldn't organise a piss-up at a bar.

Peace and political stability is not a one-way street. Getting superficial "stability" at any price is not the behaviour of a mature adult. As much as the Obama presidency has been a moral failure from a liberal point of view (see how expanding drone assassination programme, his kowtowing to the police post the Dallas shootings, and his failure to close Guantanamo), let's be very clear about one thing: he's not a human being that is bereft of morals, standards, and intelligence. Unlike Trump.

But keep the Trump loving fantasy going -- I hear it makes people feel good.

First off I do not have a "trump loving fantasy" I am just attempting to view the situation from a neutral standpoint.

Secondly you do know Russia is a democracy and its not communist anymore?

Thirdly What has Assad done that is worse than any other middle eastern country ie Saudi Arabia? (before you bring up any fake news article about how he used chemical weapons let me debunk that for you "The Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) has confirmed the traces of the sarin gas used in Syria are not linked with the Syrian government's former stockpile of chemical weapons. The report corroborates the Syrian government's assertions that the faction responsible for the chemical attack, as well as 11 other instances of chemical weapons use, was the Syrian opposition.")

Where have you been the last 10 years???

This has to be a troll....

Firstly, Russia is NOT a democracy..fact!!!! Although they are closer to being a democracy than they once were.

Secondly, it is well proven and document that Assad uses chemical weapons on his own people and is in fact wanted for war crimes(still to be proven by a war crimes tribunal) but go figure....

** Citation needed

In the most recent Russian presidential election, for example, Putin received 63% of the vote and, by all indications, Vladimir Putin is legitimately popular in Russia.

Where have I been the last 10 years hmmm well I got married built my first house oh and on geekzone since 2005 :)

dejadeadnz

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#1707090 21-Jan-2017 19:15

freitasm: @stan, Russia is not a democratic state. The roles of President and Prime Minister have been rolling between two people, there is persecution of people seen as critical of the state.

They aren't a communist state but are an autocratic state in my view.

Stan is an obvious troll with his constant "citation needed" replies. Also, people like him confuse majoritarianism as being the sole determinant of whether a country is democratic, when a philosophically and practically non-bankrupt notion of democracy requires respect for things like minority rights (Stan might like to Google the prosecution of LGBT people in Russia), freedom of the press (hint for Stan: Russia doesn't have much of it), and respect for human rights and rule of law.

Stan will of course come back and claim that all these sources are made up/biased with approximately two lines -- after quoting a stream of previous replies of course.

billgates

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#1707092 21-Jan-2017 19:24

If it was not for drones, Osama Bin Laden would still be alive and kicking in Pakistan. Pakistan is a failed state and easily turns a blind eye very quickly. If the US had advised Pakistan to carry out the operation, Bin Laden would have 'escaped' with too many informants within Pakistan's army and ISI aiding Bin Laden to escape. The ISI (Pakistan's version of CIA) calls the shots in Pakistan and not the democratically elected government which btw only 3 years ago in their history of 66 years since it's creation after partition from India(that's right 66 years) completed a successful transfer from one government term of 5 years to another government. For 66 years, the country has had coups and emergency called by the army before a 5 year term could be completed. All the ISI does is send insurgents to India and Afghanistan.

The drones have also helped kill Al-Zarqawi in Iraq who was number one there before ISIS was formed against US army in Iraq. Sure the mess is created by US and UK in the first place in Iraq and Syria because all both countries do is a half ass job, leave and this starts a civil war and millions get displaced and hundreds and thousands die and now Europe faces a migrant crisis. World was better with Saddam in power.

How can one not believe that drones do not offer precision strikes compared to troops being on the ground, kicking and screaming every house door and let the target escape with local intel? Carpet bombing kills more people..

It truly does suck when civilians die amongst these drone strikes but then a lot more civilians have died in the civil war and those who are used as a shield by ISIS, Taliban, Hamas etc specially kids. You will hardly ever about bulk of Muslim nations scream and offer their support in places like Somalia and Egypt because no foreign interests are involved in these places for the ongoing conflict so these places are left to rot...

Drones have been very effective in Pakistan, Yemen and Iraq.

Do whatever you want to do man.

freitasm

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#1707094 21-Jan-2017 19:29

I rather see drones doing this than lots of soldiers on the ground - this is less targeted and there's a higher risk for everyone involved in both sides.

Also the President decides one way or another based on information and advice. He's not the guy who'd go "Yes, drones are the greatest thing" if everyone else were saying "Nope, no".

Stan

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#1707096 21-Jan-2017 19:30

dejadeadnz:

freitasm: @stan, Russia is not a democratic state. The roles of President and Prime Minister have been rolling between two people, there is persecution of people seen as critical of the state.

They aren't a communist state but are an autocratic state in my view.

Stan is an obvious troll with his constant "citation needed" replies. Also, people like him confuse majoritarianism as being the sole determinant of whether a country is democratic, when a philosophically and practically non-bankrupt notion of democracy requires respect for things like minority rights (Stan might like to Google the prosecution of LGBT people in Russia), freedom of the press (hint for Stan: Russia doesn't have much of it), and respect for human rights and rule of law.

Stan will of course come back and claim that all these sources are made up/biased with approximately two lines -- after quoting a stream of previous replies of course.

When did I bring up freedom of the press? When did I bring up LBGT laws? I just said they are a democratic state you sir are the troll (notice how I address you directly try it sometime).

But if I understand your premise you are saying the US should not try bring tensions down with Russia because of these things? But Saudi Arabia are okay?

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tdgeek

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#1707098 21-Jan-2017 19:31

Stan: Completely agree. I hope Trump is alot less interventionist than the Obama administration.

Oh, bound to be!! lol

I didn't watch the drivel this morning, but he will put America first before anyone. O for orsome

tdgeek

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#1707099 21-Jan-2017 19:33

Stan: Personally I think what he is saying about repairing relationships with Russia is good sign. We don't need another cold war.

The cold war is long long over. Delete that and move on

Rikkitic

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#1707100 21-Jan-2017 19:33

I do not share Stan's viewpoint on almost anything he has brought up, but I do think he has a valid point about Putin, which is that he is genuinely popular with many of his people, just as Trump is with big chunks of the American population. I happen to think this popularity is based on falsehoods and ignorance, but it would be a mistake to deny that it exists. This seems to be the era of populist politicians who appeal to the worst sentiments of their supporters. It is dangerous, it is wrong, it is mistaken, but it is real. It has to be dealt with on that basis. A good place to start might be the notion that Putin today could be Trump tomorrow. It is a sobering thought.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

freitasm

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#1707101 21-Jan-2017 19:33

Stan:

dejadeadnz:

freitasm: @stan, Russia is not a democratic state. The roles of President and Prime Minister have been rolling between two people, there is persecution of people seen as critical of the state.

They aren't a communist state but are an autocratic state in my view.

Stan is an obvious troll with his constant "citation needed" replies. Also, people like him confuse majoritarianism as being the sole determinant of whether a country is democratic, when a philosophically and practically non-bankrupt notion of democracy requires respect for things like minority rights (Stan might like to Google the prosecution of LGBT people in Russia), freedom of the press (hint for Stan: Russia doesn't have much of it), and respect for human rights and rule of law.

Stan will of course come back and claim that all these sources are made up/biased with approximately two lines -- after quoting a stream of previous replies of course.

When did I bring up freedom of the press? When did I bring up LBGT laws? I just said they are a democratic state you sir are the troll (notice how I address you directly try it sometime).

But if I understand your premise you are saying the US should not try bring tensions down with Russia because of these things? But Saudi Arabia are okay?

Exactly, you said Russia is a democratic state but dejadeadnz rightly pointed out that not having some of these (freedom of the press, human rights, etc) would disqualify it from being such a thing.

You didn't bring those items to the table, so someone had to point out, correctly. Just because there are elections in some countries doesn't make them "democratic states". Zimbabwe, Syria, North Korea are prime examples of countries with "elections" where their leaders have huge numbers of "approval".

freitasm

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#1707102 21-Jan-2017 19:34

Rikkitic:

I do not share Stan's viewpoint on almost anything he has brought up, but I do think he has a valid point about Putin, which is that he is genuinely popular with many of his people, just as Trump is with big chunks of the American population. I happen to think this popularity is based on falsehoods and ignorance, but it would be a mistake to deny that it exists. This seems to be the era of populist politicians who appeal to the worst sentiments of their supporters. It is dangerous, it is wrong, it is mistaken, but it is real. It has to be dealt with on that basis. A good place to start might be the notion that Putin today could be Trump tomorrow. It is a sobering thought.

Being popular doesn't make it democratic. At minimum makes it populist.

tdgeek

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#1707104 21-Jan-2017 19:36

empacher48: Personally, I believe this will show how little power the President of the USA really has. If Trump can get everything he promised across the line then I will be surprised,

The typical result is 70%. But, the wall, it will be physical, it will be beautiful. But it might be 10k of wall, and 400 new border guards, fail.

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#1707106 21-Jan-2017 19:40

blakamin:

HAHAHA... Someone really thinks it's the POTUS that decides who gets droned! I needed a laugh.

He said droned not stoned!! :-)

Pumpedd

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#1707107 21-Jan-2017 19:41

I believe we will soon see US troops on the ground in Trumps fight against IS intensifies.

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