Wellington College students suspended

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#1740633 17-Mar-2017 09:56

gzt:
Geektastic: My wife does not put up with any crap, nor my mother, nor my sisters in law, nor my niece and I have yet to meet many women who do. There are plenty of laws in place to protect us all from each other already.

I suggest you read the objectionable comments again. You may have missed something.

I actually asked my wife. She described it as not remotely affecting her or any other woman she knows, stated that any woman who put herself in the position referred to in the comments was both contributing to any outcome resulting from that and was an idiot and although the boys were certainly very silly to think it was cool to say what they said, a clip round the ear ought to have sufficed rather than trial by media.

MikeB4

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#1740639 17-Mar-2017 10:15

Geektastic:

gzt:
Geektastic: My wife does not put up with any crap, nor my mother, nor my sisters in law, nor my niece and I have yet to meet many women who do. There are plenty of laws in place to protect us all from each other already.

I suggest you read the objectionable comments again. You may have missed something.

I actually asked my wife. She described it as not remotely affecting her or any other woman she knows, stated that any woman who put herself in the position referred to in the comments was both contributing to any outcome resulting from that and was an idiot and although the boys were certainly very silly to think it was cool to say what they said, a clip round the ear ought to have sufficed rather than trial by media.

So a woman does not have the right to drink unmolested? does that apply to wearing a mini skirt, going for a walk in the evening, wearing a bikini on the beach? Any woman or man who thinks the attitudes being discussed here are not remotely affecting them are wrong it most certainly does.

Rikkitic

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#1740643 17-Mar-2017 10:27

Geektastic:

I actually asked my wife. She described it as not remotely affecting her or any other woman she knows, stated that any woman who put herself in the position referred to in the comments was both contributing to any outcome resulting from that and was an idiot and although the boys were certainly very silly to think it was cool to say what they said, a clip round the ear ought to have sufficed rather than trial by media.

So we are back to blaming the victim, are we? Your wife sounds even less enlightened than you.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Rikkitic

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#1740645 17-Mar-2017 10:33

dickytim:

What doesn't need to be implied is there is a rape culture in NZ based on a very small minority of people, it is just feminist-Nazism at its worst and detracts from the arguments that are valid.

I stopped following this story after the initial media reports, mainly because of the initial media reports, so I don't know the details but it is my understanding that the women who staged the protest had to move it because some other poor misunderstood boys threatened to run them down with their cars. If you are going to bandy the N-term around, maybe you should chuck it in the right direction.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Geektastic

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#1742642 17-Mar-2017 11:29

Rikkitic:

Geektastic:

I actually asked my wife. She described it as not remotely affecting her or any other woman she knows, stated that any woman who put herself in the position referred to in the comments was both contributing to any outcome resulting from that and was an idiot and although the boys were certainly very silly to think it was cool to say what they said, a clip round the ear ought to have sufficed rather than trial by media.

So we are back to blaming the victim, are we? Your wife sounds even less enlightened than you.

It's called contributory negligence.

Hiding stupidity by re-naming it as blaming the victim does not help anyone. I should be able to leave my house unlocked and anyone blaming me for doing so (including my insurer) in the event of someone burgling me would be 'blaming the victim' if they called me an idiot I presume?

It matters not what sex you are - if you drink to the point where you cannot control what happens to you, make bad decisions etc etc whether they result in being beaten up, robbed or raped, there can be no doubt that your own actions contributed.

That's just common sense and to claim that it represents some form of 'unenlightened' thinking is frankly ridiculous.

Rikkitic

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#1742649 17-Mar-2017 11:41

It is your argument that is ridiculous, as well as a little cruel. Being young and/or foolish should not be a life sentence. It is those who prey on the weak that are despicable and should be condemned, not those who make bad choices. Apart from all that, your argument, and that of those who think like you, suggests that consent is always implied and a girl specifically has to say no if she doesn't consent. In a society that does not have a rape culture, non-consent is implied and a girl specifically has to say yes. If she is too drunk to do so, too bad for the eager boy. If she is drunk and does say yes and regrets it later, then it is her responsibility as long as she wan't coerced.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

MikeAqua

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#1742667 17-Mar-2017 12:26

Fred99:

Do the majority behave like that? I expect certainly not. Is there a widespread "cultural" issue with a minority behaving that way? IMO there almost certainly is.

Which is why I thinks it's hyperbole and misleading to talk about NZ having a 'rape culture'. We predominantly have a 'don't rape' culture.

It's like saying we have a theft culture because a sizeable minority of people steal.

Mike

Geektastic

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#1742673 17-Mar-2017 12:41

MikeAqua:

Fred99:

Do the majority behave like that? I expect certainly not. Is there a widespread "cultural" issue with a minority behaving that way? IMO there almost certainly is.

Which is why I thinks it's hyperbole and misleading to talk about NZ having a 'rape culture'. We predominantly have a 'don't rape' culture.

It's like saying we have a theft culture because a sizeable minority of people steal.

If we have a rape culture, what did the Vikings have?

toejam316

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#1742675 17-Mar-2017 12:45

Rikkitic:
It is your argument that is ridiculous, as well as a little cruel. Being young and/or foolish should not be a life sentence. It is those who prey on the weak that are despicable and should be condemned, not those who make bad choices. Apart from all that, your argument, and that of those who think like you, suggests that consent is always implied and a girl specifically has to say no if she doesn't consent. In a society that does not have a rape culture, non-consent is implied and a girl specifically has to say yes. If she is too drunk to do so, too bad for the eager boy. If she is drunk and does say yes and regrets it later, then it is her responsibility as long as she wan't coerced.

Bolded the relevant part.
Educate, and do it correctly. Not this teach boys not to rape nonsense. Teach personal responsibility and boundaries. All these things that should be safe in modern society aren't - just because you're telling no means no outside the beehive doesn't mean that some sicko isn't going to be ready to take advantage of a situation.

Girls shouldn't get so drunk as to be vulnerable to assault. Fact. Sexual assault shouldn't be a thing that ever occurs. Fact. Murder shouldn't ever occur. Fact.

I look forward to the anti-murder protests outside the beehive because a school boy was caught playing Grand Theft Auto. After all, we do live in a murder culture.

Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.

MikeAqua

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#1742677 17-Mar-2017 12:48

Geektastic:

MikeAqua:

Fred99:

Do the majority behave like that? I expect certainly not. Is there a widespread "cultural" issue with a minority behaving that way? IMO there almost certainly is.

Which is why I thinks it's hyperbole and misleading to talk about NZ having a 'rape culture'. We predominantly have a 'don't rape' culture.

It's like saying we have a theft culture because a sizeable minority of people steal.

If we have a rape culture, what did the Vikings have?

Ever seen Erik the Viking?

Mike

Fred99

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#1742678 17-Mar-2017 12:51

MikeAqua:

Fred99:

Do the majority behave like that? I expect certainly not. Is there a widespread "cultural" issue with a minority behaving that way? IMO there almost certainly is.

Which is why I thinks it's hyperbole and misleading to talk about NZ having a 'rape culture'. We predominantly have a 'don't rape' culture.

It's like saying we have a theft culture because a sizeable minority of people steal.

Call it a sub-culture then. As well as theft, there are probably many other "sub-cultures" with very negative outcomes to society - but they're all part of "our" culture. We're in this together.

MikeB4

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#1742722 17-Mar-2017 13:23

Geektastic:

MikeAqua:

Fred99:

Do the majority behave like that? I expect certainly not. Is there a widespread "cultural" issue with a minority behaving that way? IMO there almost certainly is.

Which is why I thinks it's hyperbole and misleading to talk about NZ having a 'rape culture'. We predominantly have a 'don't rape' culture.

It's like saying we have a theft culture because a sizeable minority of people steal.

If we have a rape culture, what did the Vikings have?

today is 17/03/2017

MikeAqua

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#1742765 17-Mar-2017 14:16

Fred99:

Call it a sub-culture then. As well as theft, there are probably many other "sub-cultures" with very negative outcomes to society - but they're all part of "our" culture. We're in this together.

Rape isn't culturally acceptable in any culture I identify with.

If feminists want to call it 'rape sub-culture' I can live with that.

But they never will: It's not much of a dog-whistle and it doesn't allow them to tar all men with the same brush.

Mike

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#1742814 17-Mar-2017 16:07

They are using the term to get an emotive reaction about the issue, is it accurate, not particularly but it has at least got people talking about it.But much like "the boy who cried wolf" if they overuse it for any behaviour that they find offensive, then it will soon lose all its meaning.

Objectification is not a one way thing, like women don't judge men on their height, weight, appearance, quality of dress, job status etc etc etc and ofcourse, no woman ever went into a bar with the exclusive goal of getting laid. Granted, the volume of sexual assaults against women by mean far outnumber those against men by women, but sexual assault and/or rape is not a cultural thing, its criminal. Trying to link juvenile and/or stupid behaviour to "a culture" is plain bollox.

Fred99

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#1742857 17-Mar-2017 16:57

MikeAqua:

Fred99:

Call it a sub-culture then. As well as theft, there are probably many other "sub-cultures" with very negative outcomes to society - but they're all part of "our" culture. We're in this together.

Rape isn't culturally acceptable in any culture I identify with.

If feminists want to call it 'rape sub-culture' I can live with that.

But they never will: It's not much of a dog-whistle and it doesn't allow them to tar all men with the same brush.

You're talking about it being "culturally acceptable" which it clearly isn't to you or me.

Do you only live, breathe, and communicate with people in some kind of isolated world or gated community separate from the NZ I live in?

Those "despicables" (sorry HRC) regardless of number are actually part of "our" NZ culture. Unpleasant - but true.

But there you go - clearly you've tarred all feminists with the same brush - as "feminist nazis" tarring all men with the same brush.

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