English speaking nurse fails English tests

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gzt

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#3418958 26-Sep-2025 10:57

Batman: rural just means you've schooled for 4 years outside of the 4 big cities.
anyone could do 4 years of primary school in not the 4 big cities then live in the 4 big cities forever and get in under "Rural". - it's a joke.

You're wrong. It isn't four years it's five years. "Evidence shows that students identifying with regional or rural backgrounds are more likely to work outside urban areas" that is where severe shortages are - it's not a joke.

https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/fmhs/study-with-us/application-and-admission/admission-schemes/regional-rural-admission-scheme.html

networkn

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#3418960 26-Sep-2025 11:00

gzt:
networkn: In the first 2 years they lost 5 students to suicide likely due to the stress, they had significant numbes drop out year one and even more drop out year 2 and quite a number failed exams at the end of year and either re-sat over summer or quit.

Imo there is something deeply wrong with that. Any other vocation and that number of deaths is an industry crisis and must be addressed.

It was incredibly high pressure, very competitive, and you have a lot of highly strung type A personalities, who aren't used to failure. Med School is in a different league than most vocations and the learning and pressure is relentless.

The suicides were addressed somewhat, but are still a thing. More in Auckland than in Dunedin. Suicide rates in Doctors is a thing as well.

The only real answer to our primary care problem, is nationalization of the primary care sector, but the cost is mind boggling. The cost of buying properties that Doctors who are practice owners, own, would be in the billions.

We could prop it up somewhat, by bringing the doctors under a collective bargaining agreement, and injecting some decent sums into medical practices for them to hire more doctor adjacent care (nurse practitioners and the like), but it also comes down to resetting expectations of the NZ public, that they can't expect to save up a years worth of medical problems and expect to be seen inside the 15 minute consultation (which is supposed to include the notes etc).

gzt

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#3418963 26-Sep-2025 11:12

networkn: It was incredibly high pressure, very competitive, and you have a lot of highly strung type A personalities, who aren't used to failure. Med School is in a different league than most vocations and the learning and pressure is relentless.

I do completely understand that I just think there is a numbed acceptance of some of worse aspects because it's always been that way in the profession. To some extent it's a good thing a new institution is planned and likely has a good chance to escape some of the long term inertia.

cddt

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#3418969 26-Sep-2025 11:28

Metamorphic:

I am happy it is super difficult to get into medical school. I'm just as happy it is super difficult to pass medical school. We want highly competent people making profoundly consequential decisions about our bodies, not the merely competent, because the costs of mistakes are so high.

With respect to diversity, our medical system should be representative of who we are as a society, for many reasons. For example, we absolutely need doctors from working class neighbourhoods of bogan cities, because they will be able to relate to patients of their background in a way somebody from a wealthy family who attended a private school is unlikely to be able to. Even if only 15% of these "bogan background" doctors make it through medical school, they are worth their weight in gold.

Bring to mind a friend who had perfect grades in first year health science, absolute top of the class, but didn't get into med based on the interview. One of the questions was the meaning of the word "Aotearoa": he said "New Zealand", and after that point he could tell from the demeanour of the interviewers that his chance was over.

So he went to Aus, trained there, and is now a GP in rural NSW. He speaks three languages.

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#3418979 26-Sep-2025 12:13

cddt:

Metamorphic:

I am happy it is super difficult to get into medical school. I'm just as happy it is super difficult to pass medical school. We want highly competent people making profoundly consequential decisions about our bodies, not the merely competent, because the costs of mistakes are so high.

With respect to diversity, our medical system should be representative of who we are as a society, for many reasons. For example, we absolutely need doctors from working class neighbourhoods of bogan cities, because they will be able to relate to patients of their background in a way somebody from a wealthy family who attended a private school is unlikely to be able to. Even if only 15% of these "bogan background" doctors make it through medical school, they are worth their weight in gold.

Bring to mind a friend who had perfect grades in first year health science, absolute top of the class, but didn't get into med based on the interview. One of the questions was the meaning of the word "Aotearoa": he said "New Zealand", and after that point he could tell from the demeanour of the interviewers that his chance was over.

So he went to Aus, trained there, and is now a GP in rural NSW. He speaks three languages.

If we are going to do anecdotes, here is one: I was raised in a quintessential bogan city in NZ. My mate was hit by car while riding his beloved Triumph, his leg fractured. His mate, who was most definitely not a doctor, took a look at the x-ray of the screws and plate that was used to hold the bone together and said the screw wasn't big enough for the job. He was right, despite being a blue-collar worker with no medical training. The screw broke and had to be replaced. Who knows, perhaps that guy who saw what the doc didn't might have become a fine doctor or medical engineer himself were he given the opportunity?

On a more general note, there are a huge number of studies looking into the value of cross-cultural competence and medical outcomes. Interesting stuff. It seems obvious to me that a successful society does not train doctors hailing from an exclusive socioeconomic slice of the population. We need doctors who can understand and relate to everyone who lives here.

eracode

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#3418993 26-Sep-2025 13:41

cddt:

Bring to mind a friend who had perfect grades in first year health science, absolute top of the class, but didn't get into med based on the interview. One of the questions was the meaning of the word "Aotearoa": he said "New Zealand", and after that point he could tell from the demeanour of the interviewers that his chance was over.

So he went to Aus, trained there, and is now a GP in rural NSW. He speaks three languages.

... but not te reo presumably? 😀

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johno1234

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#3418996 26-Sep-2025 13:58

Batman:

johno1234:It is not hard to get into med school if you meet one of the diversity quota groups - Maori, PI and Rural, but otherwise you need academically exceptional out of school. What we end up with is an unrepresentative cohort of the diversity quota groups plus the academic elite. Then as mentioned, quite a few drop out so positions are wasted.

There's no requirement for successful Maori, PI and rural candidates to return to work with those communities after they graduate. They can and often do disappear to Australia with their subsidised degrees just like the others. All medical graduates should be bonded over a portion of their course fees.

rural just means you've schooled for 4 years outside of the 4 big cities.

anyone could do 4 years of primary school in not the 4 big cities then live in the 4 big cities forever and get in under "Rural". - it's a joke.

A friend's son got into Otago med school because he has some PI ancestry. I don't begrudge him as he worked damn hard to get in and stay in and he's doing very well. But he wouldn't have got in with just his excellent school grades. He has no particular interest before or after in his PI heritage but he worked out exactly what he needed to exploit it to get in. Good on him. Tough for all the others that are denied a spot by lesser candidates.

It is indeed a joke.

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#3419005 26-Sep-2025 14:50

Metamorphic:

...

If we are going to do anecdotes, here is one: ...

I applied for NZ Citizenship about three years ago after first arriving here in 1981 and living here (other than a 4 year OE stint) on a residence permit since.

As part of the vetting process I needed to prove my proficiency in English, and this could include taking part in an interview.

I replied by email attaching a photo of my 1982 School C results and 1983 UE Certificate showing I had passed English 😀. Citizenship was granted not long after.

The Institute of Unfinished Research has concluded that 6 out of 10 people

Batman

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#3419015 26-Sep-2025 14:54

gzt: "Evidence shows that students identifying with regional or rural backgrounds are more likely to work outside urban areas" that is where severe shortages are - it's not a joke.

https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/fmhs/study-with-us/application-and-admission/admission-schemes/regional-rural-admission-scheme.html

identifying as rural to get into med school? apparently there's also evidence paracetamol causes autism

cddt

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#3419018 26-Sep-2025 15:03

eracode:

... but not te reo presumably? 😀

No, Mandarin and Cantonese in addition to English.

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yitz

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#3419029 26-Sep-2025 15:59

cddt:

the meaning of the word "Aotearoa"

It means land of the long white cloud. Can I pls become docter?

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eracode

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#3419051 26-Sep-2025 19:59

yitz:

cddt:

the meaning of the word "Aotearoa"

It means land of the long white cloud. Can I pls become docter?

Yes of course you can - even though you can’t correctly spell the name of the profession.

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jfw01

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#3419054 26-Sep-2025 21:30

ezbee:

...
Hospitals don't want to employ entry level, complete their practical and advance RN training as they are not funded for that.
...
https://www.thepress.co.nz/nz-news/360768437/huge-blow-less-half-graduate-nurses-get-hospital-jobs
...

I think that there are more pieces to this, which are about wider government policy. Ministers have stated that they are trying to claw back the Christine Bartlett decision. To make that plausible in the market, they have to non-hire nurses.

It's also related to the general fiscal situation and goals, and to the on-again/off-again hiring freeze.

Tinkerisk

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#3419075 27-Sep-2025 03:41

I was able to communicate best with my Welsh colleague in the Klingon language. 😁

Qui nihil scit, omnia credere debet. - He who knows nothing must believe everything.
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