Occupy Together!!

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2260 posts

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#568504 13-Jan-2012 16:27

listudio:
Cloudmelon:
listudio: What a movement can do is to bring up the issues publically and push the government to act on it so as to improve the system. Government is in the position to make actual changes.

I don't believe that is something being disputed..

Glad to see your brain working, lets be clear, government is in the role and will organise good teams and experts to work out the problems.

Why is his brain not working? Isn't it worse believing in a fictional character?

I don't get what was wrong with his comment at all? I doubt the government is taking any notice of these protests. The only people taking notice in Wellington, are the council. Due to the protesters ruining the grass near Civic Square

I have moved across the ditch. Now residing in Melbourne as a VOIP/Video Technical Trainer/Engineer.

Cloudmelon

186 posts

Master Geek

#568512 13-Jan-2012 16:44

vinnieg:
listudio:
Cloudmelon:
listudio: What a movement can do is to bring up the issues publically and push the government to act on it so as to improve the system. Government is in the position to make actual changes.

I don't believe that is something being disputed..

Glad to see your brain working, lets be clear, government is in the role and will organise good teams and experts to work out the problems.

Why is his brain not working? Isn't it worse believing in a fictional character?

I don't get what was wrong with his comment at all? I doubt the government is taking any notice of these protests. The only people taking notice in Wellington, are the council. Due to the protesters ruining the grass near Civic Square

listudio

196 posts

Master Geek

#568513 13-Jan-2012 16:47

vinnieg:
listudio:
Cloudmelon:
listudio: What a movement can do is to bring up the issues publically and push the government to act on it so as to improve the system. Government is in the position to make actual changes.

I don't believe that is something being disputed..

Glad to see your brain working, lets be clear, government is in the role and will organise good teams and experts to work out the problems.

Why is his brain not working? Isn't it worse believing in a fictional character?

I don't get what was wrong with his comment at all? I doubt the government is taking any notice of these protests. The only people taking notice in Wellington, are the council. Due to the protesters ruining the grass near Civic Square

I have done nothing..:D

As long as the media involved, the government will take notice for sure...

MikeB4

18435 posts

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#568531 13-Jan-2012 17:36

listudio:
vinnieg:
listudio:
Cloudmelon:
listudio: What a movement can do is to bring up the issues publically and push the government to act on it so as to improve the system. Government is in the position to make actual changes.

I don't believe that is something being disputed..

Glad to see your brain working, lets be clear, government is in the role and will organise good teams and experts to work out the problems.

Why is his brain not working? Isn't it worse believing in a fictional character?

I don't get what was wrong with his comment at all? I doubt the government is taking any notice of these protests. The only people taking notice in Wellington, are the council. Due to the protesters ruining the grass near Civic Square

I have done nothing..:D

As long as the media involved, the government will take notice for sure...

I doubt it, they are more interested in reality

listudio

196 posts

Master Geek

#568537 13-Jan-2012 17:49

KiwiNZ:
gzt:
KiwiNZ: Now if it were a Phd and Economist, Nobel prize winner it may add some credence to the cause, [...]

I doubt it will advance the discussion but that person would be Joseph Stiglitz exactly. He has written a lot of articles and given a lot of interviews but these two give a good idea of what he is thinking and saying. He has spoken in support of and at Occupy:

http://www.vanityfair.com/society/features/2011/05/top-one-percent-201105

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/2012/01/stiglitz-depression-201201

The first article was written prior to occupy, and is believed to have inspired the "the other 99%" meme.

The second is January 2012.

The occupy movement my find this link advantageous..... http://www.mapsofworld.com/

The USA is not New Zealand. Their Economic system is not our economic system. Their problems are theirs not ours. Why is that so hard for them to understand.

Now we are in the information age and the age of global economy. US have huge influence on the global economic power structure and the international financial system. Also these issues such as financial inequality, banking-industry corruption, corruption in politics are the global issues, not only US. New Zealand is part of a global economy and community unavoidably affected by any social and economic turbulence from US or China. This movement starts from US and spread over many countries actually shows US power and influence.

listudio

196 posts

Master Geek

#568545 13-Jan-2012 18:04

Cloudmelon:
vinnieg:
listudio:
Cloudmelon:
listudio: What a movement can do is to bring up the issues publically and push the government to act on it so as to improve the system. Government is in the position to make actual changes.

I don't believe that is something being disputed..

Glad to see your brain working, lets be clear, government is in the role and will organise good teams and experts to work out the problems.

Why is his brain not working? Isn't it worse believing in a fictional character?

I don't get what was wrong with his comment at all? I doubt the government is taking any notice of these protests. The only people taking notice in Wellington, are the council. Due to the protesters ruining the grass near Civic Square

Looks like my brain..hehe

MikeB4

18435 posts

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#568547 13-Jan-2012 18:07

listudio:
KiwiNZ:
gzt:
KiwiNZ: Now if it were a Phd and Economist, Nobel prize winner it may add some credence to the cause, [...]

I doubt it will advance the discussion but that person would be Joseph Stiglitz exactly. He has written a lot of articles and given a lot of interviews but these two give a good idea of what he is thinking and saying. He has spoken in support of and at Occupy:

http://www.vanityfair.com/society/features/2011/05/top-one-percent-201105

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/2012/01/stiglitz-depression-201201

The first article was written prior to occupy, and is believed to have inspired the "the other 99%" meme.

The second is January 2012.

The occupy movement my find this link advantageous..... http://www.mapsofworld.com/

The USA is not New Zealand. Their Economic system is not our economic system. Their problems are theirs not ours. Why is that so hard for them to understand.

Now we are in the information age and the age of global economy. US have huge influence on the global economic power structure and the international financial system. Also these issues such as financial inequality, banking-industry corruption, corruption in politics are the global issues, not only US. New Zealand is part of a global economy and community unavoidably affected by any social and economic turbulence from US or China. This movement starts from US and spread over many countries actually shows US power and influence.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/11/18/us-corruption-global-idUSTRE5AH0HA20091118

The problems in the US cannot be resolved by reforms here in NZ.

Sharesies kids

Free kids accounts - trade shares and funds (NZ, US) with Sharesies (affiliate link).

KissySellOut

46 posts

Geek

#568551 13-Jan-2012 18:24

Yeah yeah, I know where it first popped up, I'm not a total idiot. When I say it's worldwide I'm not implying it has some kind of dictating leader or anything like that, to be honest I think you know I wasn't implying anything like that, only that it is a unity of people from all over the world with the exact same or very similar (mostly political) agendas.

Ofcourse the USA and NZ have different economic systems but that does not mean that they can't experience very similar problems or that one can not have an affect (no matter how big or small) on the other. The USA and western Europe are where the ripples of the crisis started, believe me it took years for the impact here to be realistically comparable and yeah, it isn't so bad here. However it is clearly still enough to have dozens upon dozens of people protesting both up and down the country and internationally.

KissySellOut

MikeB4

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#568561 13-Jan-2012 18:31

I am going out to find a responsive brick wall.

KissySellOut

46 posts

Geek

#568564 13-Jan-2012 18:36

LoL, what? so was I actually expected to answer every single question that's been asked or something? I'd be here all night, definetly try that brick wall (or look it up like most people do!). Email me if you want to debate this properly :P

KissySellOut

MikeB4

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#568566 13-Jan-2012 18:38

KissySellOut: LoL, what? so was I actually expected to answer every single question that's been asked or something? I'd be here all night, definetly try that brick wall (or look it up like most people do!). Email me if you want to debate this properly :P

KissySellOut

I don't want to hog this Thread. I have a n interest in this subject due to my professional back ground.

Cloudmelon

186 posts

Master Geek

#568567 13-Jan-2012 18:39

KissySellOut:
Email me if you want to debate this properly :P

KissySellOut

What was it you were doing up till now then?

Wade

2225 posts

Uber Geek

#568568 13-Jan-2012 18:42

If Government don't step in and bail out their respective economies surely this would lead to the demise of much business, business whose ripples effect many other nations. If the EU and USA economies die then NZ would die too as we generate wealth by exporting which requires international buyers

By my logic, lack of bailout puts other "innocent" nations at financial risk, why would we want to prevent governments doing the right thing globally?

KissySellOut

46 posts

Geek

#568573 13-Jan-2012 18:43

@Cloudmelon debating.. publicly...? I guess!? There's information I wouldn't be totally comfortable with sharing with a big group of people just so you know. It's nothing special, I'm a fairly cautious person.

@KiwiNZ what do you do professionally then?

KissySellOut

crackrdbycracku

1168 posts

Uber Geek

#568671 14-Jan-2012 00:26

OK, so a bit of research shows that one Occupy policy planks is a Robin Hood Tax, know as a Financial Transaction Tax or here in New Zealand: the Hone Heke Tax.

This isn't that far out there. It isn't anything like the radical communist wealth redistribution we have actually seen in Russia or China. It isn't an overthrow of the current financial system. It's a new tax, nothing more nothing less, kind of like GST was once really.

If Occupy represents the 99%...

Here is question one. Why is this tax idea only being promoted by Hone Harawira who doesn't have any mainstream support?

Why did Labour do so badly in the last election proposing a Capital Gains Tax which is softer but also goes after speculation, all be it mostly in property?

One of the things the British Government said was they wouldn't institute a tax like this because to work it would have to be global. I am guessing that behind that is the idea that if it wasn't global transactions would go to the place where they were not taxed. Having said that cheap labour in China is not an argument for not having a minimum wage here.

OK, so forget the camping. Should we have a Financial Transaction Tax?

Didn't anybody tell you I was a hacker?

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