Interesting video about Brexit

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#1581822 28-Jun-2016 12:02

On the subject of this ridiculous 350 million for the NHS: no one seriously suggested that the day after the vote, there would be a big pile of cash.

They have to actually leave first
It is money they would not have to give to the EU
It is a choice - they could simply not tax/borrow that amount
If they do tax/borrow that amount, it could go to the NHS if the government of the day decided that was appropriate

Anyone who actually thought that there would suddenly be 350 million lying around waiting for a new home probably believes in fairies.

nakedmolerat

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#1581836 28-Jun-2016 12:34

Geektastic:

On the subject of this ridiculous 350 million for the NHS: no one seriously suggested that the day after the vote, there would be a big pile of cash.

They have to actually leave first
It is money they would not have to give to the EU
It is a choice - they could simply not tax/borrow that amount
If they do tax/borrow that amount, it could go to the NHS if the government of the day decided that was appropriate

Anyone who actually thought that there would suddenly be 350 million lying around waiting for a new home probably believes in fairies.

Nobody questions that - they question on what Nigel Farage said afterwards *facepalm*. You got to read what people has quoted for you

"Nigel Farage, leader of the U.K. Independence Party and who campaigned for Brexit said implying that money sent to the EU could be spent on the health service in the future was a mistake."

"No I can't [guarantee it], and I would never have made that claim. That was one of the mistakes that I think the Leave campaign made," he said on British TV after the vote.

Edit: This was plastered all over Boris' bus

Satch

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#1581877 28-Jun-2016 13:05

I have been following this thread with interest. It has become very apparent that the pro leavers will find any material in the media or on social networking to prove their point. And the pro remain people will do the opposite. This is likely to go on in circles.

I was/am pro remain because two thirds of my household income comes from GBP. I believed the experts who said a leave vote would severely impact the UK and world economies. I believe that the vote to leave is a vote for the UK to start again from scratch in terms of building a new economy for themselves (trade agreements and the like). I personally do not believe that this is the best option especially since the world has been climbing its way out of the last recession, and really didn't need a new event to risk falling into another. And I've seen two thirds of my household income drop by 10% so far in only a few days (and that doesn't take into account any of the falls prior to the vote based on close polls), and can see it dropping further over the coming months/years because the UK will effectively need to start over and no one really knows how that is going to play out.

Is this a selfish view? Maybe. But anyone who wishes for an outcome that will benefit them could be labelled the same. And isn't that how decisions on voting work?

My view is that the leave decision, albeit it by a slim majority (making it even hard for the "losers" to swallow) is a big backwards step which has no guarantee whatsoever of building a better future.

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#1581906 28-Jun-2016 13:15

"Let's find our NHS instead"

Is neither a promise, or incorrect, it's an OPTION in what else to do with the money, and most arguments about the total sum revolve around defraying a part of it against the 'income' they receive for various things in their country too.

SJB

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#1581908 28-Jun-2016 13:17

Satch:

I have been following this thread with interest. It has become very apparent that the pro leavers will find any material in the media or on social networking to prove their point. And the pro remain people will do the opposite. This is likely to go on in circles.

I agree 100%. Let's come back in 10 years and discuss who called it correctly.

But more importantly than brexit - England lost 2-1 to Iceland. Now that is a disaster!

Geektastic

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#1581914 28-Jun-2016 13:26

nakedmolerat:

Geektastic:

On the subject of this ridiculous 350 million for the NHS: no one seriously suggested that the day after the vote, there would be a big pile of cash.

They have to actually leave first
It is money they would not have to give to the EU
It is a choice - they could simply not tax/borrow that amount
If they do tax/borrow that amount, it could go to the NHS if the government of the day decided that was appropriate

Anyone who actually thought that there would suddenly be 350 million lying around waiting for a new home probably believes in fairies.

Nobody questions that - they question on what Nigel Farage said afterwards *facepalm*. You got to read what people has quoted for you

"Nigel Farage, leader of the U.K. Independence Party and who campaigned for Brexit said implying that money sent to the EU could be spent on the health service in the future was a mistake."

"No I can't [guarantee it], and I would never have made that claim. That was one of the mistakes that I think the Leave campaign made," he said on British TV after the vote.

Edit: This was plastered all over Boris' bus

That does not say that all 350 million should go to the NHS.

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#1581915 28-Jun-2016 13:26

SJB:

Satch:

I have been following this thread with interest. It has become very apparent that the pro leavers will find any material in the media or on social networking to prove their point. And the pro remain people will do the opposite. This is likely to go on in circles.

I agree 100%. Let's come back in 10 years and discuss who called it correctly.

But more importantly than brexit - England lost 2-1 to Iceland. Now that is a disaster!

Lost at what?

Satch

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#1581920 28-Jun-2016 13:29

PhantomNVD: "Let's find our NHS instead"

Is neither a promise, or incorrect, it's an OPTION in what else to do with the money, and most arguments about the total sum revolve around defraying a part of it against the 'income' they receive for various things in their country too.

Let's be a bit sensible here. The slogan on the bus implies that the 350m would possibly be put into NHS instead. It doesn't guarantee it but it implies it, and a lot of voters I'm sure would have taken that as something firmly on the table.

tdgeek

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#1581921 28-Jun-2016 13:29

Satch:

I have been following this thread with interest. It has become very apparent that the pro leavers will find any material in the media or on social networking to prove their point. And the pro remain people will do the opposite. This is likely to go on in circles.

I was/am pro remain because two thirds of my household income comes from GBP. I believed the experts who said a leave vote would severely impact the UK and world economies. I believe that the vote to leave is a vote for the UK to start again from scratch in terms of building a new economy for themselves (trade agreements and the like). I personally do not believe that this is the best option especially since the world has been climbing its way out of the last recession, and really didn't need a new event to risk falling into another. And I've seen two thirds of my household income drop by 10% so far in only a few days (and that doesn't take into account any of the falls prior to the vote based on close polls), and can see it dropping further over the coming months/years because the UK will effectively need to start over and no one really knows how that is going to play out.

Is this a selfish view? Maybe. But anyone who wishes for an outcome that will benefit them could be labelled the same. And isn't that how decisions on voting work?

My view is that the leave decision, albeit it by a slim majority (making it even hard for the "losers" to swallow) is a big backwards step which has no guarantee whatsoever of building a better future.

Not selfish, its a real preference based on a real person in a real world.

I gather, and Im not an expert on this topic, but I gather that the trade will remain relatively similar, if not very similar. If trade was shot, gone, who knows, then the effect that has been seen is justified, but I dont feel thats the case. They dont need to start over. Its a knee jerk by cashing currecies and stocks. I expect that will settle.

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#1581922 28-Jun-2016 13:30

Letter from today's Telegraph:

SIR – In 1992, a slight majority of Swiss voters refused to join the European Economic Area (50.3 per cent to 49.7 per cent).

According to the pundits – and most national newspapers – the country was going to break up. (It was indeed divided between a French-speaking Europhile minority and a German speaking anti-European majority.) The economy was going to crash and the Swiss franc was to be worth less than the Zimbabwean dollar.

Calls for a second vote came, and companies warned they were ready to leave the country. Local authorities talked of individual cantons joining the EU. The government was warning of a massive haemorrhage of talent.

None of this happened. Instead, after a slight recession, the economy started to grow again. Nowadays, even if the country’s relationship with the EU is far from settled, almost no one seriously envisages joining the EU or the all-but-defunct EEA. As Britain goes through similar times, it is worth remembering this.

Nicholas Antenen
Geneva, Switzerland

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#1581923 28-Jun-2016 13:32

Satch:

PhantomNVD: "Let's find our NHS instead"

Is neither a promise, or incorrect, it's an OPTION in what else to do with the money, and most arguments about the total sum revolve around defraying a part of it against the 'income' they receive for various things in their country too.

Let's be a bit sensible here. The slogan on the bus implies that the 350m would possibly be put into NHS instead. It doesn't guarantee it but it implies it, and a lot of voters I'm sure would have taken that as something firmly on the table.

It is on the table.

On the table means "possible depending on prevailing circumstances at the time" not "here's the cash!"

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#1581930 28-Jun-2016 13:33

SJB:

I agree 100%. Let's come back in 10 years and discuss who called it correctly.

Why? Is this a competition? We are talking about people's livelihoods at stake here.

SJB:

But more importantly than brexit - England lost 2-1 to Iceland. Now that is a disaster!

Don't England normally bomb out of any soccer tournament they enter? Where is the disaster in this?

Satch

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#1581934 28-Jun-2016 13:36

tdgeek:

I gather, and Im not an expert on this topic, but I gather that the trade will remain relatively similar, if not very similar. If trade was shot, gone, who knows, then the effect that has been seen is justified, but I dont feel thats the case. They dont need to start over. Its a knee jerk by cashing currecies and stocks. I expect that will settle.

Sorry you lost me with the bold words. Nothing more than guesses. The reality is that they will have to start out again no matter how easy or hard that will be. That's what is creating all the uncertainty, and that is fact.

Satch

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#1581942 28-Jun-2016 13:44

Geektastic:

Satch:

PhantomNVD: "Let's find our NHS instead"

Is neither a promise, or incorrect, it's an OPTION in what else to do with the money, and most arguments about the total sum revolve around defraying a part of it against the 'income' they receive for various things in their country too.

Let's be a bit sensible here. The slogan on the bus implies that the 350m would possibly be put into NHS instead. It doesn't guarantee it but it implies it, and a lot of voters I'm sure would have taken that as something firmly on the table.

It is on the table.

On the table means "possible depending on prevailing circumstances at the time" not "here's the cash!"

Again this is twisting the situation to fit your views. I twisted it the other way when Farage denied post result that diverting the money to NHS was a mistake made by other leave campaigners. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-nigel-farage-nhs-350-million-pounds-live-health-service-u-turn-a7102831.html. You have to realise that things raised during a campaign like this will be taken as pledges if one votes for a certain outcome. Surely we are all sensible enough to agree on that?

SJB

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#1581975 28-Jun-2016 13:53

Satch:

Why? Is this a competition? We are talking about people's livelihoods at stake here.

Don't England normally bomb out of any soccer tournament they enter? Where is the disaster in this?

I'm not suggesting it's a competition, just that nobody knows for sure at this moment in time what the economic result is going to be long term.

Yes England do bomb every time but not normally quite as badly. And as an Arsenal supporter I'm used to coming 2nd or 3rd or 4th or.......

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