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frankv
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  #2923475 7-Jun-2022 11:29
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RollyShed:

 

Bung:Not necessarily older, it's an Iwi preference whether to use a macron or double vowel. I don't think the IRD would worry about connotations.

 

So how many dialects are we talking about in this low population country?

 

 

NZers have an unusual expectation of language... that everyone speaks it alike, and that everyone can understand everyone else (with the exception of Southlanders' Rrrrr and crib/bach).

 

In Europe, there's generally a local dialect which will differ noticeably in pronunciation and vocabulary  over a distance of (say) 20km or probably less. In England, there's a huge difference between how someone from Cornwall speaks and someone from Newcastle and someone from Glasgow. They probably would all have difficulty understanding each other (as would Kiwis). Most European countries have a "standard" language (think "Received Pronunciation" in English) that is taught in schools whilst local dialect is used for actual conversations between locals. My grandparents moved about 150km, and so had to speak "high Dutch" to the locals and were therefore considered posh and snobbish. Some (many?) people struggle to speak their "national" language.

 

Ironically, perhaps, low population density tends to increase language variability, since there's little chance of interacting with people with other dialects/accents.

 

 


RollyShed
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  #2923481 7-Jun-2022 11:41
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Paul1977:

 

I was watching The Chase the other night, and when asked what the contestant would do with the money if he won he said he'd like to open an "LBGT friendly café".

 

This is a whiskey tango foxtrot to me because isn't that pretty much just, you know, a café?

 

 

Probably the café will be a TV show called Sex in the City.


richms
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  #2923483 7-Jun-2022 11:42
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Paul1977:

 

I heard a long time ago that when the IRD adopted the name Te Tari Taake that they intentionally misspelled it, and it should be Te Tari Tāke, but "tāke" looks too much like the English work "take" and they were worried about the connotations. Their explanation that "taake" is simply an "older spelling" seems pretty flimsy.

 

 

Double vowels is commonly used on systems that are too inept to take macrons. Inexcusable to have systems that cant cope these days but it is the govt we are talking about. I know that some websites still freak out with them or emojis in any of the fields for user input which is also unacceptable, but lowest cost developers seem to win out over correct usability.





Richard rich.ms

Behodar
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  #2923487 7-Jun-2022 11:49
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richms: but lowest cost developers seem to win out over correct usability.

 

Seen on Twitter the other day:

 


Kiwifan
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  #2923497 7-Jun-2022 12:09
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I have just received a Consumer Link survey offering 20 Flybuys for 25 minutes of my time which being retired, I have. Sweet. The first page asked me to put in my birthdate but the form wouldn’t let you input any numbers, you had to use the back arrow to go backwards. To 1956? I don’t think so so I stopped at 1976. The next page asked me how old I was with a ticker tape of ages running along the bottom of the page. I gave up. 🧐


Paul1977
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  #2923516 7-Jun-2022 12:33
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Used McDonalds drive through in weekend. Single lane as cars enter, splits into two lanes with an order screen on each, merges back into a single lane to pay and collect food. Also only one person taking orders from both screens. 


floydbloke
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  #2923524 7-Jun-2022 12:48
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frankv:

 

... My grandparents moved about 150km, and so had to speak "high Dutch" to the locals and were therefore considered posh and snobbish. ...

 

 

 

 

@frankv  Out of curiosity, where did they move to? Was it somewhere rural?

 

I was born and grew up in Vlissingen, Zeeland, a provincial town of about 40,000 ppl at the time where everyone spoke 'true' Dutch (albeit with a local accent I expect).  My mum hailed from a (somewhat) rural village only about 30 kms away and pretty much everyone there spoke in a Zeeuws dialect.  A Zeeuws speaker can easily converse with a Dutch speaker but the distinction is very clear.  I remember being about 10 years old staying there at my grandmother's and starting some chit-chat with local kids. They asked me why I talked posh?

 

Whereas Frisian of course is very much its own language (it has its own Google Translate)  and I wouldn't have two shows of understanding a word they say.





Did Eric Clapton really think she looked wonderful...or was it after the 15th outfit she tried on and he just wanted to get to the party and get a drink?


cshwone
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  #2923528 7-Jun-2022 13:07
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frankv:

 

 In England, there's a huge difference between how someone from Cornwall speaks and someone from Newcastle and someone from Glasgow.

 

 

 

 

One of the reasons for that maybe that Glasgow isn't in England :)


Handsomedan
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  #2923607 7-Jun-2022 14:26
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cshwone:

 

frankv:

 

 In England, there's a huge difference between how someone from Cornwall speaks and someone from Newcastle and someone from Glasgow.

 

 

 

 

One of the reasons for that maybe that Glasgow isn't in England :)

 

 

Pfft...go to a pub in Glasgow and tell one of them that their funny English accents are awesome. 

 

They love it and will embrace you for the fabulous human you are. I'd recommend doing this in Strathclyde where they're even more tolerant and understanding. 





Handsome Dan Has Spoken.
Handsome Dan needs to stop adding three dots to every sentence...

 

Handsome Dan does not currently have a side hustle as the mascot for Yale 

 

 

 

*Gladly accepting donations...


RunningMan
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  #2923628 7-Jun-2022 15:31
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RollyShed: So basically I have enough to do to keep up with items in English without trying to figure what might be an equivalent Maori word for something they never had and could never invent.

 

 

I'm curious as to why you think Māori couldn't invent an administrative organisation?


RunningMan
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  #2923635 7-Jun-2022 15:45
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Paul1977:

 

I was watching The Chase the other night, and when asked what the contestant would do with the money if he won he said he'd like to open an "LBGT friendly café".

 

This is a whiskey tango foxtrot to me because isn't that pretty much just, you know, a café?

 

 

In a perfect world, but there's some pretty unfriendly places around, depending on where the contestant came from.


lxsw20
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  #2923641 7-Jun-2022 15:55
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Handsomedan:

 

Pfft...go to a pub in Glasgow and tell one of them that their funny English accents are awesome. 

 

They love it and will embrace you for the fabulous human you are. I'd recommend doing this in Strathclyde where they're even more tolerant and understanding. 

 

 

 

 

Surely it's against the FUG telling someone how to get stabbed?


  #2923651 7-Jun-2022 16:44
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frankv:

 

NZers have an unusual expectation of language... that everyone speaks it alike, and that everyone can understand everyone else (with the exception of Southlanders' Rrrrr and crib/bach).

 

In Europe, there's generally a local dialect which will differ noticeably in pronunciation and vocabulary  over a distance of (say) 20km or probably less. In England, there's a huge difference between how someone from Cornwall speaks and someone from Newcastle and someone from Glasgow. They probably would all have difficulty understanding each other (as would Kiwis). Most European countries have a "standard" language (think "Received Pronunciation" in English) that is taught in schools whilst local dialect is used for actual conversations between locals. My grandparents moved about 150km, and so had to speak "high Dutch" to the locals and were therefore considered posh and snobbish. Some (many?) people struggle to speak their "national" language.

 

Ironically, perhaps, low population density tends to increase language variability, since there's little chance of interacting with people with other dialects/accents. 

 

That expectation is there I think because the reality is that in both Australia and NZ, despite UK immigrants originating from all sorts of dialect specific locations in the 1800's (and with the exception of Aust/NZ vowels heading in different directions), both countries have ended up with a pretty uniform style of English that has basically eliminated all trace of original dialects. It's always struck me as odd that this has occurred.


frankv
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  #2923661 7-Jun-2022 17:36
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floydbloke:

@frankv  Out of curiosity, where did they move to? Was it somewhere rural?




Rural Limburg. They came from Noordwijk in South Holland.

Whereas Frisian of course is very much its own language (it has its own Google Translate)  and I wouldn't have two shows of understanding a word they say.


Kind of like Swiss German which I was told is closer to Finnish (and speaking with a throat disease) than German, and which varies from one valley to the next.

frankv
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  #2923663 7-Jun-2022 17:38
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cshwone:

frankv:


 In England, there's a huge difference between how someone from Cornwall speaks and someone from Newcastle and someone from Glasgow.


 



One of the reasons for that maybe that Glasgow isn't in England :)


Touché.

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