Occupy Together!!

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Ultimate Geek
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#569982 17-Jan-2012 15:46

crackrdbycracku: As Tangata Whenua I say as long as KissySellOut takes care of the grass he/she can stay.

She/he/it is probably out buying the requirements of their school stationery list at the moment

listudio

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#570079 17-Jan-2012 18:17

I really don't think many people are focusing more on individuals here, what's being discussed is largely the cause for Occupy and peoples opinions thereof, not who's in it.
KissySellOut

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#570154 17-Jan-2012 21:29

If you must know, I have a returning residents visa. My first visa didn't last that long if I recall but it was "canceled without prejudice" and replaced after the full application process had been completed.

Out buying stationary for school did you say? Hey - I know I look young, what can I say, guess we can't all be old like you... ooh this really is totally off topic... lol... why did I even respond to that? Just has to be my inquisitive information hungry student mind.... haha

KissySellOut

KissySellOut

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#570163 17-Jan-2012 21:41

In all honesty though, nope, not out buying stationary. I was away reading over special relativity again because somebody told me it has been disproved by particles being observed as traveling faster than light speed at CERN at the end of 2011. I thought it didn't seem right so I wanted to read it again to set him straight and I think time distortion can account for it. If a muons half life can be extended at very high speeds then why shouldn't their observed speed increase relative to themselves? Anybody wish to correct me about speed there? Or should I start a new (more detailed) topic? I sure didn't and wouldn't find that out in school unfortunately, do schools here cater for people with genuine intellect or do they just run out of material once the student has covered every thing for that year many weeks early like they did all those years ago in my school?... apologies for straying from a guideline here, just responding to the relevant comment.

KissySellOut

Byrned

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#570257 18-Jan-2012 09:13

A statement such as the above only prooves that you read some articles that came out at the time that the information was released. "I was away reading special relativity again..." - sounds like a Tui ad.

However it's far more likely to be a mathematical error due to neutrino's being given an assumed mass, as the mass scale of neutrino's is still not known and can only be estimated.

So, in conclusion, the experiment at CERN is more likely to result in a better understanding of the mass of neutrino's than to actually have found something that travels faster than light.

lyonrouge

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#570297 18-Jan-2012 10:40

So after further engagement, a complaint point that I agree with has come out, that being Privatised Gain and Public Loss, i.e. bail-outs and the misappropriation of those bail-outs. Now this is a complaint I can support.

If addressing this were the mission of Occupy I would propose a localised (NZ) solution should be sought, as we are not followers of USA.

First, "Bail-out" in NZ, shall we define that as RDGS?

Assuming this Occupy movement accepts this definition, I can move on to identifying what is wrong with it, my submission would be that as a guarantee scheme, the fees (like any insurance scheme) need to be raised for participants and the conditions of guarantee, to return the contributors deposit, not any promised return (as this, is the contributor to "greed", i.e. disproportionate ROI).

So, a proposed, quantifiable, outcome would be to change the RDGS scheme to double the contribution cost and guarantee only deposits, and not proposed or promised returns.

Finally, a timeline needs to be set for this, I believe a year would be a suitable plan?

A milestone would be dissolution of Occupy movement, replaced by a project team to mean this plan, given the low number of Occupy participants, this project team could be formed using all Occupy residents and dissolution of campgrounds by Friday 3rd of February 2012?

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gzt

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#570521 18-Jan-2012 18:30

Pretty sure the retail deposit scheme only guarantees the deposit not any gain.

gzt

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#570586 18-Jan-2012 20:52

With regard to South Cantabury Finance (SCF) - five SCF people have been charged with various offences. Charges include theft, deception, false statements & false accounting.

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/name-suppression-south-canterbury-five-accused-17-billion-fraud-ne-107793

On the regulation side, a bill was developed to increase the requirements for finance companies etc. The Non-Bank Deposit Takers bill is currently before select commitee. Report due end of Feburary:

http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Legislation/Bills/3/7/a/00DBHOH_BILL10813_1-Non-bank-Deposit-Takers-Bill.htm

http://www.interest.co.nz/news/54550/non-bank-deposit-taker-law-change-gives-reserve-bank-more-powers-be-introduced-parliament

As I understand it the bill will require NBDT's to have:

- Credit ratings from an approved rating agency.
- Governance arrangements designed to ensure they give proper consideration to the interests of all stakeholders.
- Risk management programmes outlining how they will identify and manage key risks, such as credit and liquidity risk.
- Minimum capital requirements included in trust deeds.
- Restrictions on a deposit taker's related party exposure.
- Liquidity provisions enabling them to withstand a plausible range of shocks.

http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/news/2010/4198868.html

There is some debate to be had about how effective these would have been in preventing past collapses - but maybe they could have had a deterrent effect on some of the more outrageous shenanigans (or just required difficult sophistication) had the regulations been in effect at the time.

The NBDT legislation has not been passed yet. I am unsure if these regulations are in effect at the present time.

But, if you want yet example (and outside the RDGS) of privatised gain and socialised loss you could look at the goverment bailout of AMI insurance. The goverment agreed to take on all of AMI's Christchurch earthquake insurance claims. The deal additionally includes AIG buying AMI - and assuring the goverment that AIG will not avoid selling insurance to Christchurch residents.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/business/6151327/AMI-sold-for-380-million

lyonrouge

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#570674 19-Jan-2012 07:57

gzt: Pretty sure the retail deposit scheme only guarantees the deposit not any gain.

From the treasury site (http://www.treasury.govt.nz/economy/guarantee/retail/qanda/claims/index.htm#2.2) it included interest until the end of last year, "If an institution defaults between 12 October 2010 and 31 December 2011, the Crown will repay the principal deposited and interest that is owed (if any) up to the date of default", however I'm unable to determine the current policy (maybe they already determined this as an issue).

That asside, I suspect I have got a step ahead of myself. I guess I need to determine what the Occupy process is for problem determination before outlining a solution. I'll go back to the today and find out who defines the key success factors that will bring this to an end.

ps. maybe there is no end? I maybe spinning my wheels trying to help them abtain their goals, maybe they don't want to reach a conclusion?

gzt

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#570690 19-Jan-2012 09:19

lyonrouge:
gzt: Pretty sure the retail deposit scheme only guarantees the deposit not any gain.

From the treasury site (http://www.treasury.govt.nz/economy/guarantee/retail/qanda/claims/index.htm#2.2) it included interest until the end of last year, "If an institution defaults between 12 October 2010 and 31 December 2011, the Crown will repay the principal deposited and interest that is owed (if any) up to the date of default", however I'm unable to determine the current policy (maybe they already determined this as an issue).

How bizarre. Considering these finance companies were offering fixed terms for depositors, there is no chance of a rush on funds occurring before maturity, this seems unnecessary.

My AMI example is not really an extreme example. It is a mutual company (effectively) owned by people who purchased insurance from them. The bailout had huge social benefits compared to say the finance company examples. AMI was not holding nearly enough reinsurance to cope with events. May not be relevant but the CEO was on 870k, one of the highest paid in NZ.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/5678653/AMI-breaches-bailout-deed
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/4858410/Government-announces-500m-bailout-for-insurer-AMI

KissySellOut

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#570724 19-Jan-2012 11:01

Byrned: A statement such as the above only prooves that you read some articles that came out at the time that the information was released. "I was away reading special relativity again..." - sounds like a Tui ad.

However it's far more likely to be a mathematical error due to neutrino's being given an assumed mass, as the mass scale of neutrino's is still not known and can only be estimated.

So, in conclusion, the experiment at CERN is more likely to result in a better understanding of the mass of neutrino's than to actually have found something that travels faster than light.

It doesn't prove that at all. That's what I was doing, straight up. I read over the school comment a second time and thought I'd set the record straight. Yeah... I was thinking about that and you're probably right (if you do assume that it has quantifiable mass). If it turns out it has no mass then why should it's speed be restricted to c? And what do you mean they haven't found something that travels faster than light? If you take anything from point a to point b, using a restricted speed limit and it arrives sooner than predicted then it is going faster or taking a different, quicker path.... that's pretty obvious. Yeah it was only a few milliseconds over the given distance but put that into light years and it's really substantial. Perhaps it was down to a marginal error in estimating the mass. And yes, these experiments are reaping huge and amazing results.

@lyonrouge That does sound like a viable, realistic plan to me, why not run that by some of the current campers? Perhaps they would want to stay there not until a plan of action has been formalized but until it has achieved results... ie. in a year or how ever long it takes, otherwise I think they are open to suggestion on how to improve the financial situation.

KissySellOut

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#570730 19-Jan-2012 11:27

The current *cough* 'campers' in wellington wouldn't no what a plan was unless it was an idea to obtain drugs and or booze. I doubt they even know of the Financial crisis in Europe or Bank bail outs.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

ScottStevensNZ

245 posts

Master Geek

#570756 19-Jan-2012 12:11

KiwiNZ: The current *cough* 'campers' in wellington wouldn't no what a plan was unless it was an idea to obtain drugs and or booze. I doubt they even know of the Financial crisis in Europe or Bank bail outs.

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#570921 19-Jan-2012 17:59

today walking past the campers on queen st opp the town hall i noticed they have a little display area under a tent type thing with a few chairs. the only people i could see sitting in this area was some of queen st most notorious homless, one of which was sniffing glue. couldn't see anyone there that looked like they where part of this so called movement.

i also work opp vic part where the rest of these dreamers have moved to. i can tell you that the caltex gas station where they all go to use the bathroom are sick of them walking and using there facilities without buying anything.

honestly it just seems that they are all hanging out together keeping each other company not having to pay rent.............but hey I could be wrong

Anything I suggest or say is my own thoughts and not provided by anyone else unless stated

crackrdbycracku

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#570923 19-Jan-2012 18:06

There is one use of the word 'movement' which seems to fit them.

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