Awful events in Paris 2015-11-14

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Ultimate Geek
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#1428272 15-Nov-2015 12:25

A headline on Google says - "Paris terror attack: Syrian passport found on terrorist's body belonged to refugee smuggled through Greece".

It would be sad if terrorists are using the refugee stream into Europe to get in themselves to attack European targets. This would result in more countries closing their borders to refugees.

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#1428274 15-Nov-2015 12:28

geek4me: A headline on Google says - "Paris terror attack: Syrian passport found on terrorist's body belonged to refugee smuggled through Greece".

It would be sad if terrorists are using the refugee stream into Europe to get in themselves to attack European targets. This would result in more countries closing their borders to refugees.

Unfortunately, a number of people saw this coming. Sorry can't link I'm on my mobile

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#1428275 15-Nov-2015 12:31

geek4me: A headline on Google says - "Paris terror attack: Syrian passport found on terrorist's body belonged to refugee smuggled through Greece".

It would be sad if terrorists are using the refugee stream into Europe to get in themselves to attack European targets. This would result in more countries closing their borders to refugees.

So far it seems like this it has been the case.

I don't mind having a refugee program for NZ. But we should close it off to all the islamic states. (But that will never fly with the Greens/labour)

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#1428276 15-Nov-2015 12:33

DizzyD: Paris terrorist held Syrian refugee passport, says Greek government official

Living on a liitle island makes border control easier to enforce. But thanks to the Greens here in NZ, we have increased our refugee quota.

I find this an obnoxious statement.

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#1428277 15-Nov-2015 12:34

DizzyD:
geek4me: A headline on Google says - "Paris terror attack: Syrian passport found on terrorist's body belonged to refugee smuggled through Greece".

It would be sad if terrorists are using the refugee stream into Europe to get in themselves to attack European targets. This would result in more countries closing their borders to refugees.

So far it seems like this it has been the case.

I don't mind having a refugee program for NZ. But we should close it off to all the islamic states. (But that will never fly with the Greens/labour)

And this one is just dumb.

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DizzyD

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#1428279 15-Nov-2015 12:53

Rikkitic:
DizzyD:
geek4me: A headline on Google says - "Paris terror attack: Syrian passport found on terrorist's body belonged to refugee smuggled through Greece".

It would be sad if terrorists are using the refugee stream into Europe to get in themselves to attack European targets. This would result in more countries closing their borders to refugees.

So far it seems like this it has been the case.

I don't mind having a refugee program for NZ. But we should close it off to all the islamic states. (But that will never fly with the Greens/labour)

And this one is just dumb.

Dumb = your opinion. Which you are entitled to have.

Rikkitic:
DizzyD: Paris terrorist held Syrian refugee passport, says Greek government official

Living on a liitle island makes border control easier to enforce. But thanks to the Greens here in NZ, we have increased our refugee quota.

I find this an obnoxious statement.

Again. Your opinion. But no more valid than mine.

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#1428289 15-Nov-2015 13:24

DizzyD: Paris terrorist held Syrian refugee passport, says Greek government official

Living on a liitle island makes border control easier to enforce. But thanks to the Greens here in NZ, we have increased our refugee quota.

The green party is not part of the government. The nz government created an emergency measure to accept 150 people per year for the next five years. The quota has not increased.

The attacks intend to provoke irrational reactions and in your case they have succeeded.

Rikkitic

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#1428291 15-Nov-2015 13:34

DizzyD:

Again. Your opinion. But no more valid than mine.

Of course you are entitled to your opinions and on reflection maybe I was a little harsh. This is an important issue and one that will affect us all sooner or later. I don’t think it is correct to conflate terrorism with immigration, whether by refugees or otherwise, and I was objecting to the inference you were making. Of course there is always a risk that terrorists may hide themselves in the refugee stream, which may have happened in France, but the overwhelming majority of refugees are genuine and are fleeing from terrible conditions. They should not all be tarred with the same brush and careful screening can minimise any risk. Also, I object to this matter being politicised in such a way. Your statement seems to suggest that our borders have been thrown open to dangerous extremists because of Green policy. That is disingenuous and simply wrong.

Equally, it is wrong to judge an entire group of people on the basis of a single characteristic. It is grossly unfair, not to mention utterly senseless, to exclude entire populations just because they happen to come from Islamic countries. Do you seriously believe countries like Ireland, Spain, the USA, or France itself are not perfectly capable of breeding their own terrorists? Such a suggestion isn’t even logical.

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#1428298 15-Nov-2015 14:00

I have no idea what solution there is. I cannot see one. There is no army to fight, no food/fuel/weapon/transport infrastructure to bomb. They are an invisible army, thats nigh on impossible to target and neutralise.

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#1428299 15-Nov-2015 14:00

Unfortunately the terrorists are trying to recruit so any back lash against the Muslim community will aid them. Think its obvious that they will use the refugee issue to further their cause and no surprises a passport found when you would think they would be told to have no identification on them.

The backlash against innocent people because of their race or religion is equally sad but seems to be part of human behavior along with going tribal and lashing out at anyone that disagree's with them. Now we go through the blame game and finding people to vent our collective anger on which is part of what the perpetrators are after.

As sad as all of this is what we will have to put up with in the next few weeks will strain relationships between countries and people when we need to be bigger than this and focus on the actual people that did this not what they appear to belong to.

I don't see that any political point scoring or axe grinding achieves anything more than detract from the issue at hand.

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DizzyD

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#1428304 15-Nov-2015 14:26

Rikkitic: [

Equally, it is wrong to judge an entire group of people on the basis of a single characteristic. It is grossly unfair, not to mention utterly senseless, to exclude entire populations just because they happen to come from Islamic countries.

I did not say Islamic country. I said Islamic state. (enforcement of shari'a, Islamic law). ie ISIS. There is a difference. I suggest you go do some research into what an "Islamic state" is.

You can judge people by a characteristic. There are people that support ISIS and there are people that don't. Anybody that supports Sharia law has no place in our society (Democracy does not support it) . These people must not come to NZ as they have no place in our society, they bring just trouble and will not be happy until their ultimate goal has been achieved (establish a state governed in accordance with Sharia law).

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#1428335 15-Nov-2015 15:00

Here in New Zealand we tolerate and give charitable status to extreme fundamentalist Christian groups who believe homosexuals and others denounced by the bible should be excluded and persecuted at best, and probably stoned to death at worst. They think women should be subject to their men and deprived of a full education. Who is to say what these groups might get up to if they were allowed to? What restrains the worst of their excesses, is New Zealand law.

In this free democracy of ours, we do not dictate what people are allowed to believe. We only place limits on expressions of that belief if they contravene the law.

On that basis I see no difference between Gloriavale Christians and Sharia Muslims. They are allowed to believe what they want, and to enter politics and act to bring about the society they want, as long as they respect the laws of the land while doing so. If a Muslim (or Christian) resorts to arms or coercion, they are breaking the law and are dealt with accordingly. If they espouse a repressive society and work to persuade others to support that, they are doing nothing illegal. It is called democracy.

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Geektastic

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#1428359 15-Nov-2015 15:27

geek4me: A headline on Google says - "Paris terror attack: Syrian passport found on terrorist's body belonged to refugee smuggled through Greece".

It would be sad if terrorists are using the refugee stream into Europe to get in themselves to attack European targets. This would result in more countries closing their borders to refugees.

Frankly, anyone who did not see that coming a mile off is an irresponsible dreamer!

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#1428360 15-Nov-2015 15:28

Rikkitic: Here in New Zealand we tolerate and give charitable status to extreme fundamentalist Christian groups who believe homosexuals and others denounced by the bible should be excluded and persecuted at best, and probably stoned to death at worst. They think women should be subject to their men and deprived of a full education. Who is to say what these groups might get up to if they were allowed to? What restrains the worst of their excesses, is New Zealand law.

In this free democracy of ours, we do not dictate what people are allowed to believe. We only place limits on expressions of that belief if they contravene the law.

On that basis I see no difference between Gloriavale Christians and Sharia Muslims. They are allowed to believe what they want, and to enter politics and act to bring about the society they want, as long as they respect the laws of the land while doing so. If a Muslim (or Christian) resorts to arms or coercion, they are breaking the law and are dealt with accordingly. If they espouse a repressive society and work to persuade others to support that, they are doing nothing illegal. It is called democracy.

I agree. In an ideal world, humans would have grown out of religion by now.

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#1428361 15-Nov-2015 15:29

tdgeek: I have no idea what solution there is. I cannot see one. There is no army to fight, no food/fuel/weapon/transport infrastructure to bomb. They are an invisible army, thats nigh on impossible to target and neutralise.

Certainly hard to propose one that remains within the FUG I agree.

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