People's dress sense/standards at work

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#1644560 3-Oct-2016 10:13

I work in IT, and have never been required to wear a suit and tie (nor would I ever even consider taking employment under such conditions). I've worked under various dress codes, from shorts and tshirts being perfectly acceptable through to a requirement of dress trousers and business shirt. Personally I prefer jeans and a business shirt, but currently work somewhere that has a formal documented dress standard with several tiers depending on role and duties, but that requires me to wear a collared shirt, _pressed_ dress trousers (sif that's ever happened!), etc. Glad I don't have to adhere to the higher level policy that includes having your shirt ironed.

Also worth noting is the difference between Wellington and Christchurch. No one in Christchurch really cares how you are dressed, whereas walking down Lambton Quay meant you were constantly being watched and judged. Can't say I miss that really, even if I do miss Welly :-)

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#1644562 3-Oct-2016 10:17

tdgeek:

Rikkitic:

dejadeadnz:

Your stances here are internally inconsistent. If it's demeaning to have standard dress (i.e. standards), why is poor taste a problem? MikeB4 is right: if you dress like a gumboot, you will be treated like one. Whether people like it or not, in most jobs/industries there are generally applicable/expected dress standards. There's no point in deliberately flouting them and making your perceived lack of good taste/consideration for others a central focus.

You asked for opinions, I gave one. I am not seeking your approval and I don't care what you think about my stances. Pompous twittery is also a stance, but you don't see me complaining.

Be quite good to discuss without insulting.

Give it a rest. We've heard it all before.

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#1644577 3-Oct-2016 10:37

Rikkitic:

Give it a rest. We've heard it all before.

He is actually right debate can be had with out insults or demeaning others

edit: removed unneeded quotes

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1644585 3-Oct-2016 10:43

Lias:

Also worth noting is the difference between Wellington and Christchurch. No one in Christchurch really cares how you are dressed, whereas walking down Lambton Quay meant you were constantly being watched and judged. Can't say I miss that really, even if I do miss Welly :-)

I really think that depends...

I don't think I'd say "nobody cares". I've seen some cracker sights in Chch, an entire family wearing their pyjamas and white freezing-worker style gumboots while shopping at the Mad Butcher recently, the rite of passage for some debutantes to end up rolling in the grass outside the Lindauer tent at the races muddying their very very expensive designer clothes, rural gentry couples in twinset and pearls / moleskins and tweed jacket, the laughably anachronistic attire of the "syrups", moronic skinheads (they seem to have vanished - thank goodness).

Fewer public servants in Chch for sure, but it's a place with conservative and very class conscious roots.

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#1644588 3-Oct-2016 10:52

MikeB4:

Rikkitic:

tdgeek:

Rikkitic:

dejadeadnz:

Your stances here are internally inconsistent. If it's demeaning to have standard dress (i.e. standards), why is poor taste a problem? MikeB4 is right: if you dress like a gumboot, you will be treated like one. Whether people like it or not, in most jobs/industries there are generally applicable/expected dress standards. There's no point in deliberately flouting them and making your perceived lack of good taste/consideration for others a central focus.

You asked for opinions, I gave one. I am not seeking your approval and I don't care what you think about my stances. Pompous twittery is also a stance, but you don't see me complaining.

Be quite good to discuss without insulting.

Give it a rest. We've heard it all before.

He is actually right debate can be had with out insults or demeaning others

I respect your opinions Mike but I see this a bit differently. I think tdgeek is a bit obsessed with me. This dates from our heated debates on the drugs thread. As far as the other goes, I was expressing what I think of the mentality of someone who says the things that were said in the way they were said. I wouldn't know how else to phrase that. I genuinely think it is pompous twittery.

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#1644591 3-Oct-2016 10:59

We don't have a dress code at work, so for me, it is T-shirt, jeans, and sneakers pretty much all year round. Shorts if it's hot. Many team members wear shirts and pants, that's their choice. I really don't think it matters, especially when you're not seeing clients.

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#1644594 3-Oct-2016 11:01

I find it quite interesting that some of the posters who are most aggressively (in tone) pushing the notion that companies or individuals making judgements about others' dress standards are displaying so little self-awareness regarding the strength of their own judgements. You think that people who feel, for example (as I do) that some people are over-stretching smart/corporate casual standards by having shirts that aren't tucked in or whatever else are pedants? Be in my shoes and observe, realise and appreciate that there are other cultures that people have to interact with and they have different expectations.

For the record, I personally don't mind too much what others wear beyond expecting clothing and accessories to be in good condition and that the individual has a corporate standard of grooming and personal appearance.

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#1644613 3-Oct-2016 11:31

dejadeadnz:

For the record, I personally don't mind too much what others wear beyond expecting clothing and accessories to be in good condition and that the individual has a corporate standard of grooming and personal appearance.

Golly you lawyers are a laugh a minute. This one seemed to meet your required standards - but still found himself in contempt at the High Court. Not sure if I can recall the details - was it because he should have damned well known you should never wear black shoes with a white frock?

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#1644614 3-Oct-2016 11:33

dejadeadnz: I find it quite interesting that some of the posters who are most aggressively (in tone) pushing the notion that companies or individuals making judgements about others' dress standards are displaying so little self-awareness regarding the strength of their own judgements. You think that people who feel, for example (as I do) that some people are over-stretching smart/corporate casual standards by having shirts that aren't tucked in or whatever else are pedants? Be in my shoes and observe, realise and appreciate that there are other cultures that people have to interact with and they have different expectations.

For the record, I personally don't mind too much what others wear beyond expecting clothing and accessories to be in good condition and that the individual has a corporate standard of grooming and personal appearance.

This is a statement I can fully agree with. I have no issue at all with what people want to wear, and I do in fact believe that there should be certain standards, I just happen to have great distaste for uniforms and an obsession with conformity in appearance. People who want to wear suits should be able to, as should people who don't. People who derive pleasure from dressing like Oscar Wilde should be able to indulge that without disapproval. My issue, as always, is with freedom of choice.

edit for misplaced word

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#1644620 3-Oct-2016 11:43

In a business environment people are free to dress inline with what the owner and or manager requires. Outside work people can express their freedom of choice inline with what the law requires.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1644627 3-Oct-2016 11:52

First job in London as a software developer was suit and tie, but you could take your jacket off.

Also spent a couple of weeks consulting to a merchant bank in the city of London, again suit and tie, and casual Friday meant you could take your jacket off, the rest of the week you had to code with your jacket on.

Job dress code as varied dramatically since working in NZ back in 1999 from occasional suits to offices where shorts in summer were acceptable.

I'll admit if I've got an important meeting I'll dress a little smarter, but I've never needed to wear a tie to a customer meeting in the 5+ years I've worked for Red Hat.

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#1644643 3-Oct-2016 12:12

Fred99:

PhantomNVD: In my last job I was 'forced' to go collar and tie, while the ladies got to wear basically anything that covered all their bits and wasn't considered 'scandalous'... actual joke being, I'm a Primary School teacher and was teaching 6-7year olds... as if a tie would improve my teaching or the respect my 'clients' gave me 😆

It's worse for women in many workplaces. I'm sure that they're judged more on appearance - including dress - than men. At executive level, men can probably get away with owning a couple of suits and pairs of sensible shoes and simple "accessorising" with ties/shirts.

This exactly. Many years ago, in a land far far away, my wife and I worked in a corporate environment.
For men, a relatively simple dress code was in place. A couple of times a year I might need to update shoes, buy a few new shirts etc.. or to get really radical - that loud tie.

For my wife, a whole different thing. Every evening the next day's outfit and accessories would be taken out of the drycleaner's bags, laid out.
She had to maintain a reasonably large, expensive, basic wardrobe from which she could mix and match, accessorise, and dress - not just within the (loose for women) guidelines of a written dress code, but particularly within the company "culture" - an unwritten expectation that the way she dressed would be unique yet convey professionalism, be classy, yet understated, bling would be stylish, expensive but not gaudy.
All of which would be noted, compared and commented on by other women. If a new piece or detail wasn't positively commented on - it was likely a fail..

Wearing The Correct Brands was important, and was a minefield. Bally Swiss shoes were 'in' until they opened too many branches and became 'common' and then they weren't..
For guidance, she had a network of trusted sales associates in various brand name shops we could consult with, and who would call us if something 'perfect' had arrived.

The whole unwritten code thing extended into our private life. The location - area, level and size of your (apartment if you were younger/junior - house if you were older/senior level) mattered.
Your car(s) mattered, your gym, where you holidayed, golfed, the barbecues you were invited to.. all mattered if you wanted to fit in.
And by fit in, I mean be quietly told about those upcoming team changes, restructurings, and opportunities for advancement before they became common knowledge.

When we left, to be self employed in a different industry, it was hard to decompress, to realise that the way we dressed wasn't nearly as important as the effort we put into running our business.

And now that we live in rural New Zealand, have kids, wear a hat when it's sunny, an oilskin when it rains, steel capped boots most days it all seems like some sort of crazy dream.
What a disconnection from reality! such a waste of time, effort and money..

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#1644653 3-Oct-2016 12:26

In my not so humble opinion, the tie has gotta be the most useless piece of attire ever invented.

What practical purpose does it have? Oh I know: a stockbroker has a handy implement to hang himself with, when the share market takes a huge dive.

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#1644657 3-Oct-2016 12:29

@sidestep, I know what you mean. I personally can't stand that kind of snobbery and conformism.

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#1644661 3-Oct-2016 12:36

DarthKermit:

In my not so humble opinion, the tie has gotta be the most useless piece of attire ever invented.

What practical purpose does it have? Oh I know: a stockbroker has a handy implement to hang himself with, when the share market takes a huge dive.

This. Is started my career wearing a tie and once it was no longer compulsory I never looked back. We have guys in our office who think it is fun to have "Tie Thursday". Personally I prefer to be comfortable all week long (and I wear Hugo Boss suits to work during the winter months).

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