Auckland Weather 27/01/23 and Cyclone Gabrielle

Forums › Off topic › Auckland Weather 27/01/23 and Cyclone Gabrielle

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#3038934 19-Feb-2023 11:13

MikeB4:

Handle9: They followed the rules presented to them.

You can get basically nothing out of the forestry industry and put everyone involved out of work or you can get nothing out of the forestry industry.

Up to you.

Again that is BS. So by your claim nothing should done to industries that are killing people and or causing immense damage to infrastructure land and waterways. hmm now lets think are there industries that have been required to change?

Auto industry required to change design and compulsory installation of safety equipment, EG Seat beats, design of front end to protect pedestrians

Building industry, banning of asbestos, earthquake mitigation.

All industries, emmission controls.

Toy and infant equipment, must meet strict child safety regulations.

Drug Industry, must meet strict safety regulations.

Shall we go on. How many of those industries are still going strongly? Why should the forestry industry be exempt from this scrutiny, legal requirement and responsibility regarding environmental damage and human life? What gives the forestry some kind of right to destroy large swathes of countryside and waterways, destroys homes and businesses and take lives.

I don't think Handle9 is suggesting that change isn't necessary or won't be forthcoming. I think he's just stating that there will be no retribution against the forestry industry as they complied with the regulations that were in place at the time of the event.

freitasm

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#3038935 19-Feb-2023 11:16

elpenguino:

Heard some of 'Mediawatch' this morning in which ZB is criticised for downplaying the seriousness of the storm before and during it's arrival.

Some of the quotes from Hoskins and Hawkesby are repeated in this Stuff story: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300809224/cyclone-gabrielle-scepticism-is-a-sting-in-covids-tail

They really are an odious lot.

Newstalk ZB has a bunch of deplorables. To me, Mike H is certainly not a nice person either.

The lowest of the lowest.

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#3038936 19-Feb-2023 11:22

Senecio:

I don't think Handle9 is suggesting that change isn't necessary or won't be forthcoming. I think he's just stating that there will be no retribution against the forestry industry as they complied with the regulations that were in place at the time of the event.

What I believe should happen is the government look at legal proceedings to determine if there has been breaches under health and safety act and breaches under the crimes act. The government needs to act to ensure that the industry is cleaned up and legislate sweeping changes to prevent the continuation of the reckless practices. These changes should be a matter of urgency as climate change gives us no room for the luxury of procrastination.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

MikeB4

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#3038937 19-Feb-2023 11:23

freitasm:

Newstalk ZB has a bunch of deplorables. To me, Mike H is certainly not a nice person either.

The lowest of the lowest.

Every time I hear or read Hoskings and Hawkesby garbage I think of Fox News

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

tweake

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#3038938 19-Feb-2023 11:25

MikeB4:

Deanonzl:

Had an interesting discussion with the head of the logging operation behind my house yesterday.
They are going to remove 8 trees that have been blown over on our section.
We chatted about "forestry slash"
The local council actually require a large amount to be left covering the ground to stimulate regrowth, and to prevent ground being washed away. Watch the councils do a full denial!

They would not need to to leave the slash if they did selective logging. The remaining trees will protect saplings, stabilise the land, protect the waterways, continue to absorb carbon and make the forest sustainable and have continuous production.

its a bit more complicated than that.

it goes back to how the forestry is run which is done to get good grades of timber. typically they plant way to many trees (as they protect each other as they grow) then cut a large amount down to create room for the rest to grow. they are left as slash to rot down. then pruning, which is also left. tho normally that not to much of a problem.

also if you cut out say half the trees, the rest loose their wind protection and you will get more trees broken due to wind.

so there could well be a lot that would need to be changed.

makes me wonder if doing a green belt around the creeks would help. use the trees themselves to catch the slash that slides down the hill.

tweake

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#3038985 19-Feb-2023 11:28

Senecio:

I don't think Handle9 is suggesting that change isn't necessary or won't be forthcoming. I think he's just stating that there will be no retribution against the forestry industry as they complied with the regulations that were in place at the time of the event.

but did they?

we have had floods here due to them not complying. its often a case of agreeing to terms to get the best price, then ignoring the terms and do it has per normal.

how many companies have been fined? very few. was the fine reflective of the clean up cost? no. did they even pay the fine?

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Dingbatt

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#3038986 19-Feb-2023 11:29

freitasm:

Newstalk ZB has a bunch of deplorables. To me, Mike H is certainly not a nice person either.

The lowest of the lowest.

And yet his is the highest rating radio show in the country.

So, while you are not alone in your opinion of him, other’s views may differ.

Isn’t it great to have choice?

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

MikeB4

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#3038988 19-Feb-2023 11:39

The only outcome clear felling and leaving the slash serves is short term gain for long term loss. We new that clear felling and deforestation of our hill country was wrong and was exampled by massive erosion and land instability back at the turn of last century and we commenced tree planting to correct this. We conveniently acquired amnesia for enable profit.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

MikeB4

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#3038989 19-Feb-2023 11:43

Dingbatt:

And yet his is the highest rating radio show in the country.

So, while you are not alone in your opinion of him, other’s views may differ.

Isn’t it great to have choice?

That is what happens when ratings drive content and not fact and common sense.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Rikkitic

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#3038992 19-Feb-2023 11:54

Dingbatt:

And yet his is the highest rating radio show in the country.

So, while you are not alone in your opinion of him, other’s views may differ.

Isn’t it great to have choice?

Choice based on lies, populism, and feeding people crap to reinforce their prejudices. I don't think Fox is a great choice and I don't think this is either.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#3038993 19-Feb-2023 11:54

I read somewhere that the slash used to be burned in situ but Green regulations put a stop to that. Not sure if it’s true but it sounds quite possible.
Cereal stubble burning was made illegal in the EU in the early 90’s for the same reasons.

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Dingbatt

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#3038997 19-Feb-2023 12:28

Rikkitic:

Choice based on lies, populism, and feeding people crap to reinforce their prejudices. I don't think Fox is a great choice and I don't think this is either.

I completely agree with this sentiment.

But as the saying goes

”One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter”.
That is, it depends on point of view, opinion and personal prejudices.

But are you saying you should choose what other people should view or listen to based on your world view?

There is going to need to be a close look at what was done right and wrong in the events that prompted this thread. But that will have to be added to the pending enquires on previous events that have already adversely affected people’s lives. An ever increasing list.

My fear is that the terms of reference of any enquiry will be slanted to achieve the outcome that best reflects the ideology of the government in power at the time.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Senecio

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#3038998 19-Feb-2023 12:29

MikeB4:

Senecio:

I don't think Handle9 is suggesting that change isn't necessary or won't be forthcoming. I think he's just stating that there will be no retribution against the forestry industry as they complied with the regulations that were in place at the time of the event.

What I believe should happen is the government look at legal proceedings to determine if there has been breaches under health and safety act and breaches under the crimes act. The government needs to act to ensure that the industry is cleaned up and legislate sweeping changes to prevent the continuation of the reckless practices. These changes should be a matter of urgency as climate change gives us no room for the luxury of procrastination.

No disagreement from me on that. Change is needed, and if in fact there have been breaches of the regulations in place then they need to be held accountable.

ezbee

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#3038999 19-Feb-2023 12:30

The issue on burning seems to be once its gouged out the landscape and deposited on the farm, beach, or subdivision.
You can get council permits, its not a fast system, so asking for emergency approval.

Additional factor is that forestry is going for quick cycles, thus trees being thinned and harvested early
which is harder on land, and also makes it difficult for local sawmills if they can get any at all.
Where we export to smaller trees are fine, chipwood?

Traditional Radiata Pine ran 25-30 year cycles, apparently, we now see more Douglas fir running 8 -12 year cycles.
Land has less time to recover etc.

The size of the blocks being harvested at a time over the whole area.
This creates large areas of slash with little barrier to get to waterways.
The smaller trees may also see whole trees going with it ripping protection from the land.

Councils ability to inspect also depends on who is paying and how much for this.
Ability to pay for court cases, appeals and such if fines are large enough to fight.
Come election time, maybe campaign contributions too.

You see councils have to back down on liquor regulation as they don't have deep pockets to fight liquor industry.
This probably hits other areas in regulating industries with large backing.

sir1963

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#3039001 19-Feb-2023 12:31

MikeB4:

freitasm:

Newstalk ZB has a bunch of deplorables. To me, Mike H is certainly not a nice person either.

The lowest of the lowest.

Every time I hear or read Hoskings and Hawkesby garbage I think of Fox News

Perhaps going after their advertisers will be effective in ZB throwing out the garbage.

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