Followed a cop doing 63...

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#740836 7-Jan-2013 08:58

qwerty7:
The second part of your comment is stupid since when did I say I wanted police/fire/ambulance to obey the posted speed limit in an emergency situation.

Right here.

qwerty7:
What about the danger to other road users while they are doing their dangerous 63 kph without any visual or audio warning systems.

Again, as mentioned before, police/fire/ambo dont drive around with impunity breaking rules and endangering public. They are criminally liable for their actions.
Sometimes the quiet approach is necessary and is in the best interests of public safety. Every situation is different.

Im surprised the Herald arent having a slow news week and jump on this topic as "SPEEDING POLICE NEARLY KILL INNOCENT ROAD USER"

I mean, taking a simple picture on a phone while at an accident scene can become national news........ ;-)

qwerty7

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#740839 7-Jan-2013 09:04

I think your brain is disconnected. How are you suppose to stick to the limit when Within 1km/h when your speedo could be 5 km/h out. Sticking to the limit within 1 km/h is also unreasonable because such concentration would mean you are not looking at the road properly. that is why they have a tolerance.

What I was meaning is the penalty scale for speeding is really specific. If you are caught at 61 instead of 60 you lose twice the demerits and have a higher fine all while the equipment used to detect you speed is only accurate to +/- 3km/h not taking into account user error. But I guess the world isn't perfect so you have to just bite the bullet

qwerty7

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#740846 7-Jan-2013 09:09

SpookyAwol:
qwerty7:
The second part of your comment is stupid since when did I say I wanted police/fire/ambulance to obey the posted speed limit in an emergency situation.

Right here.

qwerty7:
What about the danger to other road users while they are doing their dangerous 63 kph without any visual or audio warning systems.

Again, as mentioned before, police/fire/ambo dont drive around with impunity breaking rules and endangering public. They are criminally liable for their actions.
Sometimes the quiet approach is necessary and is in the best interests of public safety. Every situation is different.

Im surprised the Herald arent having a slow news week and jump on this topic as "SPEEDING POLICE NEARLY KILL INNOCENT ROAD USER"

I mean, taking a simple picture on a phone while at an accident scene can become national news........ ;-)

Oh ok sorry your right , I was being sarcastic. The road conditions were fine. At the end of the day the answer to this thread is police can and do get caught

GregV

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#740875 7-Jan-2013 09:57

And not just for speeding either
http://mobile.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.php?c_id=1&objectid=10857609

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#740882 7-Jan-2013 10:11

I won't be surprised that some journo will latch on to this 'fail-thread' regarding 'The Police Tolerance vs Crown Law' - some see the Law is supreme and nothing else matters yet the police are telling the public it's fine to break the law by certain measures depending on the time of the year

Edit: Post scriptum:

I am not condoning breaking the law - I know that many many many people have been fined for travelling at 50<kph<61 during normal season so if you think police tolerance is 100% you will find out that is NOT true depending on the mood of the traffic cop

qwerty7

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#740905 7-Jan-2013 10:43

GregV: And not just for speeding either
http://mobile.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.php?c_id=1&objectid=10857609

True police arn't perfect but overall I have some respect for them. I neither love nor hate them. While as that article shows some behave badly you have to give the police force as a whole respect for the sh*t they have to put up with on a daily basis. Unless you like going to break up a party full of drunken gang members

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kobiak

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#740934 7-Jan-2013 11:10

phew... I see police cars and all others over North Shore bridge in Auckland and doing 90-100kph... in 80kph zone doing same. all good :)

it's much safer to keep with the traffic flow rather than go slower (sure traffic should not do insane speeds)

recently done road trip around north island (4600km over two weeks) and what kills me most are tourists doing 90km in the 100km zone. Everyone forced to overtake them with potential more risk (and to make it even worse, they always do 100-110kph when there is passing line and you have to go faster to over take them and drive at 100kph later). If they go 100-105 I would not complain :)

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Journeyman

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#740935 7-Jan-2013 11:14

Wow, some real high and mighty geeks here...

I think qwerty7's point when he admitted he was over the limit himself was that he acknowledges he's no angel. What he's asking (I think) is 'why do the people who uphold the speeding law break that same law themselves'. Lots of snide replies followed, accusations of hypocrisy etc. Jeez people, calm down.

I don't have a problem with cops doing up to, say, 60kmh without lights and sirens on, as long as there is a good reason for it. Otoh, I would hope that cops would be reasonable about pulling people over for doing 50k+ and that they'd base it on the circumstances. Eg, doing 55kmh in a deserted industrial zone late at night is different from doing 55kmh in a suburban area in the afternoon. Different risk factors there.

Anyway... what I really wanted to say is that you can always complain - or even query - a police officer's behaviour directly with the police themselves. If you don't trust them to investigate their own, go to the IPCA. They have to take every complaint seriously. Case in point - I was turning off the motorway one night and some car barrelled up behind me, sat on my bumper and as soon as the offramp split into two lanes, it caned past me - very close by. That's dickish behaviour from anybody, but as I got to the traffic lights I was pretty surprised to see that there was a cop driving the car! So I emailed the IPCA and said (paraphrasing) "look, I'm not looking to make a big deal but this is pretty dodgy driving from a cop and I'd like it looked into." The end result was a letter from the police explaining that the officer had an unruly fellow in the back seat and was trying to get back to the station as quick as possible and using lights and sirens would have further agitated him. Hey, you know what? Sweet as! I could take it one of two ways - either it's a BS excuse for being a mong, or it's a perfectly legit explanation and I'll give the guy the benefit of the doubt (I took the second pov, btw). I still think it's dickish to tailgate someone who is obeying the law, but I accept that sh.t happens in trying circumstances and so as far as I'm concerned, it's all sorted.

I fully expect now that some geeks will sit astride their high horses and lecture me and tell me that the incredible driving skills allow cops to tailgate people and hoon around them and how dare I question the police and I must therefore be anti-police etc. But hey, ya know what? That's the great thing about living in a democratic nation - you get to question the actions of authorities when you don't think they're doing their job. That should not be discouraged.

kingjj

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#740966 7-Jan-2013 11:57

Journeyman: \

Anyway... what I really wanted to say is that you can always complain - or even query - a police officer's behaviour directly with the police themselves. If you don't trust them to investigate their own, go to the IPCA. They have to take every complaint seriously. Case in point - I was turning off the motorway one night and some car barrelled up behind me, sat on my bumper and as soon as the offramp split into two lanes, it caned past me - very close by. That's dickish behaviour from anybody, but as I got to the traffic lights I was pretty surprised to see that there was a cop driving the car! So I emailed the IPCA and said (paraphrasing) "look, I'm not looking to make a big deal but this is pretty dodgy driving from a cop and I'd like it looked into." The end result was a letter from the police explaining that the officer had an unruly fellow in the back seat and was trying to get back to the station as quick as possible and using lights and sirens would have further agitated him. Hey, you know what? Sweet as! I could take it one of two ways - either it's a BS excuse for being a mong, or it's a perfectly legit explanation and I'll give the guy the benefit of the doubt (I took the second pov, btw). I still think it's dickish to tailgate someone who is obeying the law, but I accept that sh.t happens in trying circumstances and so as far as I'm concerned, it's all sorted..

Well said Journeyman, its good to see that the system does work, to add to your comments: while the IPCA is a great solution I would still implore people to first report it directly to the police. If you see any worrying driving behaviour by a member (sworn/non-sworn) of the NZ Police your first port of call should be either to report it by calling *555 (make sure you have the rego, all police staff logged on should have a car rego logged against their call sign), a job will be taken and it WILL be passed to the senior responsible for this officer, OR follow the dissatisfaction/complaints procedure on the Police website (which has multiple options for complaints to be lodged).

The IPCA has a large work load and should really only be used when you cannot get an acceptable resolution from the Police first.

For details on making a complaint against police see the IPCA and Police.

Likewise, if you have any praise do use the feedback form on the Police website to pass this on, everyone loves good feedback.

Journeyman

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#740996 7-Jan-2013 12:25

Thanks kingjj. I agree, the IPCA is busy and minor issues probably should be referred to the police. I guess I'm a bit cynical about police investigating their own, though. It'd be interesting to know if anyone here has experience with doing that.

Ultimately, the reason I went to the IPCA is because of this on their website:

The Authority independently investigates very serious cases, such as those involving fatality or an allegation of serious misconduct.

The Authority may also independently investigate incidents in which there is a significant public interest in having an independent investigation ? for example, an allegation against a senior Police officer.

Other complaints ? the majority ? are referred to the Police for investigation and resolution under the Authority?s oversight.

So I knew it would be passed straight to the police but they would then have to answer to the IPCA as well as me.

random833

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#740999 7-Jan-2013 12:30

its because police are a bred above normal humans thats why human laws don't apply to them

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TheUngeek

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#741006 7-Jan-2013 12:53

random833: its because police are a bred above normal humans thats why human laws don't apply to them

Can't say what I really feel due to forum rules.

freitasm

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#741007 7-Jan-2013 12:53

random833: its because police are a bred above normal humans thats why human laws don't apply to them

What kind of comment is that? Would you mind posting something a bit more intelligent than this rubbish?

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scuwp

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#741008 7-Jan-2013 12:56

In my past life being 'on the inside' I can confirm that the Police are more often than not much harder on their own than the same offence committed by the general public. And that's not just the IPCA...but smaller local complaints/investigations as well. In the majority of cases Police bosses go to great lengths to investigate and deal with legitimate and 'just' complaints against their own.

What the public sometimes fail to realise is that Police do have some rights to carry out their duties over and above the regular public are permitted (i.e. travelling above the speed limit). Case in point if the alleged driver of the suspect speeding Police vehicle had a legitimate and justifiable reason within the law for doing so, then the complaint would not be upheld (cue complaints of 'white-wash', 'corruption', and 'looking after their own')

The other issue is that the manner in which the OP has assessed the speed is insufficient for a prosecution (not detected by approved device/manner etc) so the most you could hope for would be a telling off and maybe a note on their employee file. (cue complaints of 'white-wash', 'corruption', and 'looking after their own')

They have a hard job, generally they do it pretty well, tolerance is built into their policy for prosecuting speeders, I know where I stand when I am driving, and I will not be losing any sleep over a cop doing a little bit over the limit...realising it may just be needed to do their job.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

Journeyman

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#741049 7-Jan-2013 13:45

random833: its because police are a bred above normal humans thats why human laws don't apply to them

I can't really agree with that, but I expect there is a small fraction of cops who are only there because they're power trippers or because they're nasty thugs.

Before anyone gets their knickers in a knot, a tiny fraction.

[Moderator edit (MF): removed name because the person was not found guilty and the post can be seem as defamatory]

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