Should pensions be means tested like Disability Benefits?

Forums › Off topic › Should pensions be means tested like Disability Benefits?

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5

mattwnz

20147 posts

Uber Geek

#1680333 30-Nov-2016 21:48

Aredwood: The government should consider reintroducing gift and estate taxes. As not having them is a driver of inequality As rich families are able to easily help their kids get ahead. And it would also encourage elderly people who have a lot of assets to spend more. Which will help the economy.

MaIn reason they didn't previously work was too many loopholes.

And then there is the fact that government paid for rest home care is means tested. Compare that to the pension and it is hard to argue why it is that one is means tested and and not the other.

The pension is an entitlement, it shouldn't be compared to benefits, like resthome care. It is like comparing apples with oranges. You can however compare it to other benefits that pensioners can get, like the living at home allowance, which I believe is means tested like resthome care.

There is no requirement for anyone to go into a rest home, people can get help brought in. Rest homes are also usually private so not government run.

What is wrong with parents wanting to help their offspring out. I mean it is one of the reasons people have children, to pass on their genes and see that their future generation can make a success of their life. These days people need all the help they can get. In many areas of society, it is already about 'who you know'. It is no different to people buying houses in good school zones, and paying more to live in those areas, to give your kids a helping hand. It shouldn' t be treated any differently.

We also don't want any 'new' taxes, as we already have enough.

There will always be ways for people to minimise the taxes they pay.Why should savers families be taxed again if they choose to either invest or save, rather than spend? It will also have the potential to reduce the amount of money that is invested in NZ, if people need to spend that money on consumer stuff before they die. Many rich people have little cash, their money tends to be in assets and business, which aren't easily to liquidate if they were to die and pay estate taxes. Much of the money people have saved has already been taxed anyway. I would prefer to see a CGT tax on all property including the family home (make it simple by taxing everyone like GST). I think taxing people on higher incomes is also a good idea. the amount we tax incomes is quite low. There are huge distortions in the amounts some people earn in NZ.

mattwnz

20147 posts

Uber Geek

#1680335 30-Nov-2016 21:52

rmt38:

Things in this country get subsidised by the taxpayer like WFF, or unemployment and disability benefits, and so forth.. If superannuation becomes means tested, then I see it as another benefit for those that either didn't save, couldn't save enough or wouldn't save. As much as I agree with the idea of subsidising with my earnings unemployment and disability benefits, I am fine with subsidising those who couldn't save enough or have hit hard times with respect to superannuation. But when means testing is employed, and a recipient chose not to save, then how is that fair? That person is IMO less entitled to superannuation than someone who paid lots of tax, and is excluded because of means testing.

It would take decades for any changes to take effect anyway, as people have to have suitable time to plan their finances. The media seems to be all for raising the age of entitlement as it is, as there are often stories about it in the media about this topic. The general public though don't seem to want this, which is proven by the fact that National is in power, and that is one of their key policies. The NZ system is fair and reasonable IMO. It doesn't pay much, but everyone gets treated the same, whether you saved your money, you squandered it, or you had bad luck in life.

Sam91

620 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1680337 30-Nov-2016 22:15

I'm 25 and I don't expect to receive a pension. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. One generation is going to be screwed over eventually, but it's so politically unpopular that it will happen far too late.

But don't you dare add interest to my student loan

By the way, Student Allowance fraud is rampant based on my anecdotal evidence. The Student Allowance is means tested, but people will lie about where they're living etc in order to get it. I guess there would similar problems with means testing the pension, but on a much larger scale.

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#1680611 1-Dec-2016 11:13

Sam91:

I'm 25 and I don't expect to receive a pension. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. One generation is going to be screwed over eventually, but it's so politically unpopular that it will happen far too late.

But don't you dare add interest to my student loan

By the way, Student Allowance fraud is rampant based on my anecdotal evidence. The Student Allowance is means tested, but people will lie about where they're living etc in order to get it. I guess there would similar problems with means testing the pension, but on a much larger scale.

Your generation has much more to worry about (IMO) than the mere loss of a universal pension.

General disinterest in - and skepticism about the democratic process - will put you in the hands of tyrants.

gtyler

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1681197 2-Dec-2016 11:35

mattwnz: Super is actually an entitlement, and everyone who pays taxes is paying into it. The problem is that it is managed by winz, so people think that it is a benefit. But it is really no different from any other retirement scheme. The media is also writing all sorts of stories of late, to say whether it should be means or income tested, and whether we can afford it, so I get the impression that they are wanting it changed, but many people want it kept like it is which is simple. . Our PM says yes we can afford it without putting up the age. The big problem is the government doesn't actually save the money we are paying into it, so money being paid out now is coming out of taxes. If this government hadn't suspended payments into the superfund that labour setup, nz likely could have a huge amount more in the super fund, as shares have increased substantially over their term.
If you have money in KiwiSaver you don't want the age of entitlement to Go up as it delays when you can withdraw that money so you have less time on earth to use it.

I agree with this. Problem is that the government stole the money! I remember them saying, "we could borrow money to do all the projects but it makes sense to use that money now and pay future super out the general fund. I thought at the time that what they said is true, but what will happen when it is time to pay it back? In effect, the retirees supers have been borrowed, now we are saying we can't afford to pay it back!?

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5