Wellington College students suspended

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#1745568 22-Mar-2017 09:48

Geektastic:

As soon as I meet a man who claims that a woman took advantage of him when he was drunk, something that must be rarer than unicorns, I will ask him if he objected....

Wait a minute... if it's only possible for males to take advantage of drunk women and not vice versa, what happens when *both* parties are drunk?

Seems to me that there's an underlying assumption that males (except unicorns) *always* want sex (whether drunk or not), and that females (except unicorns) *never* want sex, except when drunk?

Geektastic

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#1745594 22-Mar-2017 10:03

frankv:

Geektastic:

As soon as I meet a man who claims that a woman took advantage of him when he was drunk, something that must be rarer than unicorns, I will ask him if he objected....

Wait a minute... if it's only possible for males to take advantage of drunk women and not vice versa, what happens when *both* parties are drunk?

Seems to me that there's an underlying assumption that males (except unicorns) *always* want sex (whether drunk or not), and that females (except unicorns) *never* want sex, except when drunk?

Not from me. I was merely responding to a quote in which a member of the public (female) said there was some sort of double standard when women took advantage of drunk men. I am yet to meet a man to whom that has happened who did not want it to happen. I make no comment on when or in what state people do or do not want to have sex.

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#1745596 22-Mar-2017 10:06

gzt: Partial repost:

Some excellent reporting from Alison Mau:: Sorcha told me she and her friends have been yelled at and propositioned in the street since around the age of 11.

"It teaches you that you're helpless in your sexuality, that you're something to be viewed. Once I accidentally bumped into an old man on a bus. I apologised and his friend goes to me, 'Don't worry, you're the best he's had all day'. Flippant, sexual and degrading comments like those are passed around regularly.

It's obvious there is a problem. It's not hard to see most of this behaviour including the Facebook comments as part of a category. There are a variety of attitudes that need to change. Education has a part to play in that.

When did education cease to play a part in it? Certainly the Masters in my schools espoused a code in which gentlemen do not treat women badly, as did my parents. Of course, their views would now probably be denounced from on high as 'sexist'....so perhaps this is at least in part due to the Law of Unintended Consequences...

Rikkitic

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#1745654 22-Mar-2017 11:22

I find the tone of some of the comments here unfortunate. They trivialise the reality of sexual harassment and what a lot of women have to put up with. They also replay the tired old cliché’s about aggressive feminists. Some posters are like armchair generals pontificating on something they have no experience or real understanding of. There is also an element of arrogant dismissal in some comments. Foolish remarks that attempt to equate women sexually abusing men with men abusing women are trite and insulting. Both are reprehensible but they are not the same, either in frequency or in the effect on the victim.

I don’t know if there is a rape culture in New Zealand. I don’t think so but as in other countries there is definitely a culture of misogyny, stereotyping, trivialisation and indifference. Just as with racism, if you haven’t walked in their shoes you can’t truly know what it feels like. This does not mean that men have no right to discuss or think about the issue, but at least try to do it with a little respect and humility.

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#1745674 22-Mar-2017 11:51

I have experienced both racism and sexism.

Just because i am a white male doesn't mean I can't be discriminated against, and frankly it offends me when people say otherwise.

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#1745688 22-Mar-2017 12:00

dickytim: I have experienced both racism and sexism.

Just because i am a white male doesn't mean I can't be discriminated against, and frankly it offends me when people say otherwise.

You are right, racism, sexism, violence, abuse and any bigotry is not restricted to one race, gender, religious belief, disability etc. I have been exposed to prejudice and what I would regard as abuse due to my disability. Any of this behaviour is wrong on all accounts. The discussion here highlighting the attitudes and actions against women does not and should not lessen the abhorrence of bigotry of any form against any person.

As a nation we have to face up to it and do something about it, all of us not just males.

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#1745690 22-Mar-2017 12:09

No one has advised me yet what actions that we're not taking that we should be are

Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.

Rikkitic

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#1745704 22-Mar-2017 12:28

If you encounter someone who seems to be part of the problem, have a gentle discussion with him (or her!) about the attitude being displayed.

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Rikkitic

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#1745710 22-Mar-2017 12:33

dickytim: I have experienced both racism and sexism.

Just because i am a white male doesn't mean I can't be discriminated against, and frankly it offends me when people say otherwise.

I think your offence is misplaced. Of course a white male can experience racism and sexism, but this is unlikely to compare to a black woman who lives with both as part of her daily life. Believe it or not as you will, but the two things are different.

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toejam316

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#1745712 22-Mar-2017 12:33

But who is and isn't part of the problem? Nothing has been defined. As far as I can tell, this is all about in line with stopping 'the man' from 'keeping us down' - there's nothing of substance, and the only real impact I can make is to say to everyone I know "remember not to be a rapist!".

Edit - "black women" hang on. Are you talking about New Zealand? Because we don't have many "black" people here, unless you're a racist who calls Maori, Pacific Islanders, Indians, etc "the blacks". I think you're in the wrong country buddy

Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.

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#1745729 22-Mar-2017 12:42

toejam316: But who is and isn't part of the problem? Nothing has been defined. As far as I can tell, this is all about in line with stopping 'the man' from 'keeping us down' - there's nothing of substance, and the only real impact I can make is to say to everyone I know "remember not to be a rapist!".

Edit - "black women" hang on. Are you talking about New Zealand? Because we don't have many "black" people here, unless you're a racist who calls Maori, Pacific Islanders, Indians, etc "the blacks". I think you're in the wrong country buddy

Read some press, open your eyes and you you will see. Your post indicates that you are part of the problem because you can't/won't see the problem.

ShiroHagen

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#1745741 22-Mar-2017 12:50

Can I suggest everyone read the novel Asking For It by Louise O'Neill.

Set in Ireland but highly relevant to the WC setting and might give you some insight into how society handles this issue.

Warning - contains disturbing material.

toejam316

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#1745746 22-Mar-2017 12:55

MikeB4:
toejam316: But who is and isn't part of the problem? Nothing has been defined. As far as I can tell, this is all about in line with stopping 'the man' from 'keeping us down' - there's nothing of substance, and the only real impact I can make is to say to everyone I know "remember not to be a rapist!".

Edit - "black women" hang on. Are you talking about New Zealand? Because we don't have many "black" people here, unless you're a racist who calls Maori, Pacific Islanders, Indians, etc "the blacks". I think you're in the wrong country buddy

Read some press, open your eyes and you you will see. Your post indicates that you are part of the problem because you can't/won't see the problem.

So because I choose to see the best in people and not leap to accusations and suspicion, I'm part of the problem? I'm not sure what else I can conclude from what you're saying, at least. No one can provide me a proper guide as to what we find culturally acceptable that we shouldn't, and what steps we need to take to correct it, only tell me that I'm just too blind to see the problems in front of me. Seems to me that no one has any idea what solutions they want, or even what problem in particular is being protested.

As for 'read some press's, terrible advice. Breitbart is press, I could go read their content. Or Fox News. Guide people in the right direction, don't scoff at them for not knowing.

Edit - Shiro, that book sounds interesting, just read the blurb. I'll add it to the very long to do list.

Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.

gzt

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#1745876 22-Mar-2017 15:05

toejam316: No one has advised me yet what actions that we're not taking that we should be are

I think that's the first time you've asked.

toejam316

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#1745969 22-Mar-2017 17:27

gzt:
toejam316: No one has advised me yet what actions that we're not taking that we should be are

I think that's the first time you've asked.

Luckily thoughts are free then - it's a question I posed earlier, inside a wall of text.

Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.

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