shk292: Personally, I hate the red peak - it seems more like a trade union motif than a flag for NZ, which is presumably why Little Andy is so keen on it.  And the whole push to include it just seems due to a bunch of petulant Key-bashers who want to sabotage the process.

There's no way we should be expected to decide whether we want a new flag until the alternative is chosen; until we know the alternative, the only sensible answer to "do you want to change the flag?" is "maybe".

I can't see why people can't just let the process run.  The money expended doesn't just disappear in a puff of smoke - it gets paid to various agencies and recycled into the economy

shk292: Personally, I hate the red peak - it seems more like a trade union motif than a flag for NZ, which is presumably why Little Andy is so keen on it.  And the whole push to include it just seems due to a bunch of petulant Key-bashers who want to sabotage the process.

bluedisk:

Kyanar: 

 the creator had a bit of a tanty and got a "groundswell" of people on Facebook and Reddit to support hijacking the democratic process. And as it happens, the petition was rigged anyway. I'm actually embarrassed for my country.

Factually incorrect: the designer Aaaron Dustin never had a "tanty" and got a "groundswell" of people on Facebook and Reddit to support hijacking the democratic process. 

Rowan Simpson who is not the designer started it all rolling with a blog called Dear John http://rowansimpson.com/2015/09/02/dear-john/

http://thespinoff.co.nz/13-09-2015/the-flag-i-started-the-red-peak-surge-because-i-love-the-silver-fern/

How is a groundswell of opinion on social media sites undermining democracy? Its one of the few ways in this day and age where individuals get heard. I always thought that changing the flag would be a long and sometimes painful affair as we listen to others views who we may not agree with in the hope of finding something better that represents us all in the future.

Some people just don't like change, others don't like the flag designs presented. others the process. Thats all fine, but lets not be childish about the discussion.

Kyanar:

eracode: 
No - they have publicly said they have no issues with the possibility of Red Peak becoming the NZ flag. They also complimented NZ on looking at a distinctive and elegant design which would not be confused with their logo - or words to that effect.

However, there is a company - Arrow Uniforms - in NZ with a near identical logo, which according to NBR are licking their lips over a potential payday. (Leave it to the greedy kiwis ... wait what?)

Seriously, it's a horrible flag which lost out in the first consideration and the creator had a bit of a tanty and got a "groundswell" of people on Facebook and Reddit to support hijacking the democratic process. And as it happens, the petition was rigged anyway. I'm actually embarrassed for my country.

I would hardly say that ground swell of support on the likes of Facebook  is a swell of public opinion and a reliable  public poll .  We may as well say that talkback radio  comments  should be taken as public opinion polls as well.
You seem to be the main fan boy of Peak Flag here..

bluedisk:
...

The debates around Red Peak and other flag designs are important, because if we do decide to change the flag it will be with us for a long time. I imagine the current flag will be used by some no matter what happens in the referendum.

bluedisk:

I would hardly say that ground swell of support on the likes of Facebook  is a swell of public opinion and a reliable  public poll .  We may as well say that talkback radio  comments  should be taken as public opinion polls as well.
You seem to be the main fan boy of Peak Flag here..

I am open to a change in our flag, and was prepared for a lengthy and open minded (and probably quite painful) debate about a new design. The quality of the four selected (amateurish) designs by the government appointed panel was atrocious in my opinion. Designers and good design are often seen as being superfluous in our DIY culture. I do have a design diploma from Wellington Polytechnic that was 3 years full time study in the mid eighties, but I have never worked as a designer.

I didnt pay much attention to Red Peak initially, but when the chosen four were announced, I was horrified by the lack of choice. I quite like an abstract design as its more open to various uses and interpretations. It flys well in combinatination with the silver fern IMO. It combines the red and black colours of the Tino Rangatirotanga flag with the blue, white  and red of the Union Jack. It symbolises a mountain peak (Hillary), first to see the light night going to day etc. 

The image that really "sold" me was an interpretation which showed a Maori meeting house in red superimposed over Mt Taranaki. Quite stunning.


The debates around Red Peak and other flag designs are important, because if we do decide to change the flag it will be with us for a long time. I imagine the current flag will be used by some no matter what happens in the referendum.

bluedisk:

Factually incorrect: the designer Aaaron Dustin never had a "tanty" and got a "groundswell" of people on Facebook and Reddit to support hijacking the democratic process. 

Rowan Simpson who is not the designer started it all rolling with a blog called Dear John http://rowansimpson.com/2015/09/02/dear-john/

http://thespinoff.co.nz/13-09-2015/the-flag-i-started-the-red-peak-surge-because-i-love-the-silver-fern/

How is a groundswell of opinion on social media sites undermining democracy? Its one of the few ways in this day and age where individuals get heard. I always thought that changing the flag would be a long and sometimes painful affair as we listen to others views who we may not agree with in the hope of finding something better that represents us all in the future.

Some people just don't like change, others don't like the flag designs presented. others the process. Thats all fine, but lets not be childish about the discussion.

LookingUp: Can we add another referendum option please...?

f)  Politely ask Australia if they'll change their flag next time they change Prime Minister

kawaii: Question: Why are we even changing our flag? what is wrong with the current one? anyone get the impression that this is a giant distraction from more pressing matters?

How is it not undermining democracy? Red Peak came 38th out of 40 in the first pass public polling. Seriously, the people of NZ said it sucked that much. Then out of the blue, a bunch of people on Facebook (many of whom aren't even eligible to vote) started up a change.org petition (signed by people that don't even exist, and people who don't even use the internet) to ignore the opinions of those who actually did bother to participate in the process from day one.

To use Mauricio's word without actually using it because we can't on GZ, this whole process is bull#### and I cannot see how anyone can identify with any flag that has been selected simply to stroke John Key's empire building ego.

Personally? I don't like any of the designs presented, or the process, or the behaviours of the people backing the Red Peak flag (go look at its Facebook page sometime). And I dislike the way Red Peak got added even more.

And I dislike any flag where the designer is spruiking buying it from their website most of all.