Spread of Islam - Something to be concerned about or not ?

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heylinb4nz

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#177125 23-Jul-2015 10:57

NOTE: this is not about being anti- Muslim (ie racist), this is about the ideology of Islam and what it teaches)

Anyway ive been reading the Quran lately and also watched "Undercover Mosque"

Then I watched this last night

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

What are peoples thought on this ? is Islam something to fear ? is this just a natural progression of cultural change in the world or something more deliberate with a sinister agenda ?

Keen to get a discussion going about what the ramifications for New Zealand are, and the rest of the world.

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#1350282 23-Jul-2015 11:09

I expected Peter Reader pop up here and say "Hmmmm. Here we go."

andrewNZ

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#1350283 23-Jul-2015 11:09

Islam isn't a problem.
Extremism is. Religious and/or political.

frankv

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#1350285 23-Jul-2015 11:10

Islam is nothing to fear.

Extremists of any persuasion are what we need to be aware of, not necessarily be fearful of.

Just as in Northern Ireland, religion conveniently masks the real problem, where one group is being repressed or marginalised by another.

The question that needs to be asked is whether its reasonable to take arms against the (perceived) inequities. Naturally, the repressed will say it is, whereas the oppressors will say it is not. Naturally, both sides will provide as much information as possible to support their position, and discredit all the information provided by the other side.

I'd say that, as a rule of thumb, if someone has a simple answer to the problem, then it is wrong.

Rikkitic

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#1350289 23-Jul-2015 11:16

Personally I think all religion is something to fear. Religion promotes emotion over rationality. But I don't believe Islam is inherently any worse than any other organised superstition. In the Middle Ages (and more recently) you had Christian fanatics torturing those they regarded as non-believers. Today you have Muslim fanatics doing the same. The operative word here is 'fanatic'. Ordinary people living ordinary lives do little harm just because they observe the rituals of a particular belief system. Like everyone else in a free society, they should be able to practice any form of silliness they wish as long as it doesn't intrude on others. I have no problem with Islam. The architecture is wonderful and I enjoy the calls to prayer.

Are Islamic hordes going to overwhelm us? That sounds a lot like the earlier fear of yellow hordes descending from Asia. Today they are welcomed as tourists and high achieving immigrants. The fanatics will rant and murder and cause a lot of unnecessary misery and then the movement will burn itself out. It has happened before.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

heylinb4nz

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#1350293 23-Jul-2015 11:22

Is it fair to say though that Islam is more dangerous because it is not just a religion but also an ideology \ system of governance ?

Not to mention the fact the book they study "The Quran"

a) calls for the killing of un believers
b) allows for the beating \ lashing \ killing of woman
c) openly refers to non believers, jews and christian as vile sub humans who are to be killed
d) calls followers to migrate, procreate and decieve host nations until majority is held and Sharia can be implemented

Dont even get me started on the undercover videos at Londons most prominent mosque that teaches students the above along with even harsher Saudi interpretations.

I think extremists are a problem, but they are also highly visible and thus easily contained.

Has anyone here read the Quran ?

Rikkitic

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#1350298 23-Jul-2015 11:29

Have you read the bible? Not a lot of difference as far as the old testament goes.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

MikeB4

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#1350300 23-Jul-2015 11:31

Nothing to fear, all part of the richness that is life

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andrewNZ

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#1350301 23-Jul-2015 11:32

heylinb4nz: Is it fair to say though that Islam is more dangerous because it is not just a religion but also an ideology \ system of governance ?

And what exactly do you think our ideologies and systems of governance are based on !?!

Christianity.

It's very important when asking questions like this, to ask the same questions of your own system and beliefs.
For all intents and purposes, you are on the side that you think is in the right. They feel the same.

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#1350302 23-Jul-2015 11:35

in one word, yes. unfortunately if people want to follow every word to the dot of any religion, they are all extreme in one way or another. the only other way is to not follow every word, which then means you are not religious.

Please do not confuse whether I suppose Zionism or not. This clip is not about that, as there are strong allegations of atrocities by Israeli arm forces (whether or not condoned by the Govt) etc. Do watch and decide for yourself what goes on.

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#1350303 23-Jul-2015 11:37

Rikkitic: Have you read the bible? Not a lot of difference as far as the old testament goes.

absolutely.

as above, if you follow every word, they are the same.

somehow though, people mustn't confuse "the Old Testament Bible" (a history book, as accounted by the scribes of ancient Jew of where they came from - Judaism follows it, as I understand. every culture has one. Maori, Chinese, Egyptians, Sumerians, etc ... other than Europeans I guess ... - are they uncultured? oops lol just kidding)

with modern day Christianity - which practices things with very little of the Old Testament, if any at all - as they should follow and do what the "New Testament" says ... but then you have weirdo latter days self professed prophets who come up with their newer testaments ... very extreme to make themselves rich I reckon

heylinb4nz

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#1350304 23-Jul-2015 11:38

Rikkitic: Have you read the bible? Not a lot of difference as far as the old testament goes.

Yes I have read the bible both old and new testament (back when I was a Catholic...now RC (Retired Catholic)) I actually abhore all religion but take interest as to the impact of it on our planet and its people.

Key thing here is modern christianity does not follow old testament.

There is only 1 quran, and surely those who read it should be able to decipher its purpose.

To put it in another context.

Would your average Kiwi be happy to allow the following

a) Satanists to migrate here under some satanic verse breed and breed with a view to becoming the majority to implement satanic law
b) for those satanists to build satanic temples in your communities
c) for your local Montessori to introduce your kids to Satanic themed days to appease the satanist kids (like they do when they celebrate Ramadan at daycare)
d) for those satanist to hold rituals in the privacy of their home or in their churches
e) for those satanists to make changes to your laws to allow (sacrifice of animals, satanic loans for satanists, satanic prayer time at work)
f) satanic float at the local Christmas parade

I mean Lucifer is in the bible, surely people can follow him as part of their religion

I know some people here might say "but satanists are evil and have some harsh views and beliefs".....I say read the quran and tell me is this a religion of peace and something you want in mass in New Zealand.

wellygary

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#1350306 23-Jul-2015 11:40

heylinb4nz: Then I watched this last night

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

Which is simply sensationalist bollocks

see this debunking, and the use of totally unverifiable figures in that video

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/more_or_less/8189480.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8189231.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/more_or_less/8189434.stm

heylinb4nz

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#1350308 23-Jul-2015 11:42

andrewNZ:
heylinb4nz: Is it fair to say though that Islam is more dangerous because it is not just a religion but also an ideology \ system of governance ?

And what exactly do you think our ideologies and systems of governance are based on !?!

Christianity.

It's very important when asking questions like this, to ask the same questions of your own system and beliefs.
For all intents and purposes, you are on the side that you think is in the right. They feel the same.

I think the side that doesnt call for killing of un-belivers, beheadings, the stoning of woman to death, the mandated rape of woman, the deception of host countries to become a majority and change the culture of that country, sharia law etc et

Is the side that is right...thats the side I choose anyway...and Id hope New Zealanders would not want an ideology that promotes such things.

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#1350312 23-Jul-2015 11:47

heylinb4nz:

Would your average Kiwi be happy to allow the following

a) Satanists to migrate here under some satanic verse breed and breed with a view to becoming the majority to implement satanic law
b) for those satanists to build satanic temples in your communities
c) for your local Montessori to introduce your kids to Satanic themed days to appease the satanist kids (like they do when they celebrate Ramadan at daycare)
d) for those satanist to hold rituals in the privacy of their home or in their churches
e) for those satanists to make changes to your laws to allow (sacrifice of animals, satanic loans for satanists, satanic prayer time at work)
f) satanic float at the local Christmas parade

to be honest, I don't think the average Kiwi cares. or do they? I might be wrong ...

MikeB4

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#1350313 23-Jul-2015 11:47

The NZ Bill of Rights 1990 2 (15)

"15 Manifestation of religion and belief

Every person has the right to manifest that person's religion or belief in worship, observance, practice, or teaching, either individually or in community with others, and either in public or in private."

The NZ Bill of Rights 1990 2 (9)

"9 Right not to be subjected to torture or cruel treatment

Everyone has the right not to be subjected to torture or to cruel, degrading, or disproportionately severe treatment or punishment."

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