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Topic # 198301 4-Jul-2016 01:46
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http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11668095

 

This guy Andrew Molo is one scary person.  He has spent his life murdering and maiming people.    So , Australia rightly returned him to NZ. 

 

The Herald skips much of his criminal offending(stabbings, kickings, breaking lots of jaws).

 

Given his pattern of behaviour I think it is highly likely he will seriously hurt or kill more people in future.   And, we're letting him out in less than 3 years time.   I wonder why the judge could not jail him for longer... do judges not take into account serious criminal offending in foreign jurisdictions? 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1585701 4-Jul-2016 15:31
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By longer, you mean "forever" I presume? undecided






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  Reply # 1585722 4-Jul-2016 16:14
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From a quick read up on that guy's form, then yeah, it's a bit of a worry.  Reading the Herald article, then it seems likely that if the cops hadn't arrived in the nick of time, there'd have been a more serious offence committed, and that might have been enough to trigger the possibility of preventative detention.  For the victim's sake, it's a good thing that didn't happen.

 

Report from his murder trial.  Interesting that in the mid '90s, one could beat someone with a beer bottle and kick them when they're on the ground, then stab someone in the chest, and be paroled out inside two years.  I'm liberal, but zero tolerance for thugs like that - that's what prisons are for - to keep society safe from such people.

 

 

At the time, Molo was on parole after the Court of Appeal had reduced his sentence
to two years following his conviction in 1996 in the Brisbane District Court on two separate
assaults.

On October 20, 1995 he had viciously hit a 16-year-old boy up to six times over the
head and across the face with a beer bottle before kicking him as he lay on the ground.

Two weeks later on November 2, Molo was in a gang of youths at a shopping centre when
he stabbed a 19-year-old man in the chest with a knife.

Only a month before the attack on Ms Watts, Molo had viciously attacked another girlfriend.

The young woman, who was a university student, was virtually held hostage and thrown
up against a wall and punched three times in the face, breaking her jaw in two places.

She has had her fractured jaw wired, still has a metal plate inserted in her mouth
and has been left with constant ringing in her ears and frequent migraines.

 




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  Reply # 1585724 4-Jul-2016 16:24
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Geektastic:

 

By longer, you mean "forever" I presume? undecided

 

 

True. Personally I support the death penalty for people like this but pragmatically I understand it can never happen in NZ.

 

 

 

The Stuff story rightly paints him as a bad person but doesn't go far enough.  The repetitive nature of violent offending indicates it will continue. 

 

The best case scenario here is that he kills a gang member while in prison and gets a life sentence. 

 

Otherwise, he will get out and probably kill someone. 


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  Reply # 1585732 4-Jul-2016 16:39
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surfisup1000:

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11668095

 

 

From his defence counsel as quoted in this article:

 

"He accepts what he did was absolutely wrong, he has apologised over and over again and accepts such behaviour is simply not acceptable," she said.

 

"He'd like to put his past behind him. ..."

 

Yeah, right.  undecided





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  Reply # 1585733 4-Jul-2016 16:41
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but lengthy prison sentences aren't the answer......

 

 

 

although I suspect his latest victim would disagree with that sentiment


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  Reply # 1585766 4-Jul-2016 17:37
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As my posts make clear, I do not believe harsh sentences help with rehabilitation or even prevention. However, I do believe some people are so damaged or deformed that they must be kept locked up to protect everyone else. We have had a few of those in recent years. Maybe this is another one. Our justice system needs the flexibility to recognise and deal with dealing with these kinds of offenders before they go on to destroy other lives. This is not retribution, it is self-defence.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1586046 5-Jul-2016 07:56
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Rikkitic:

 

As my posts make clear, I do not believe harsh sentences help with rehabilitation or even prevention. However, I do believe some people are so damaged or deformed that they must be kept locked up to protect everyone else. We have had a few of those in recent years. Maybe this is another one. Our justice system needs the flexibility to recognise and deal with dealing with these kinds of offenders before they go on to destroy other lives. This is not retribution, it is self-defence.

 

 

 

 

In this case prevention of future crimes is aided by a harsher sentence.

 

On this I agree, and for the most part this person has demonstrated that they need to be locked up for a looooong time for the greater good. This is like the repeat offenders mentioned in other threads, and you do tend to miss the point that jail time is as much about protecting society as punishing criminals, be it from violence or theft/ dishonesty.

 

Will you concede this?


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  Reply # 1586049 5-Jul-2016 08:06
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Rikkitic:

 

As my posts make clear, I do not believe harsh sentences help with rehabilitation or even prevention. However, I do believe some people are so damaged or deformed that they must be kept locked up to protect everyone else. We have had a few of those in recent years. Maybe this is another one. Our justice system needs the flexibility to recognise and deal with dealing with these kinds of offenders before they go on to destroy other lives. This is not retribution, it is self-defence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What's the point in saddling the rest of society, against whom this waste of carbon and oxygen has continually offended, with a bill for the next 30 or 40 years at $100,000 a year? A .223 round costs only about 50 cents and problem solved.






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  Reply # 1586052 5-Jul-2016 08:11
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Geektastic:

Rikkitic:


As my posts make clear, I do not believe harsh sentences help with rehabilitation or even prevention. However, I do believe some people are so damaged or deformed that they must be kept locked up to protect everyone else. We have had a few of those in recent years. Maybe this is another one. Our justice system needs the flexibility to recognise and deal with dealing with these kinds of offenders before they go on to destroy other lives. This is not retribution, it is self-defence.


 



 


What's the point in saddling the rest of society, against whom this waste of carbon and oxygen has continually offended, with a bill for the next 30 or 40 years at $100,000 a year? A .223 round costs only about 50 cents and problem solved.



Civilised nations don't condone state murder.There is always a better way.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1586069 5-Jul-2016 08:21
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MikeB4:
Geektastic:

 

Rikkitic:

 

 

 

As my posts make clear, I do not believe harsh sentences help with rehabilitation or even prevention. However, I do believe some people are so damaged or deformed that they must be kept locked up to protect everyone else. We have had a few of those in recent years. Maybe this is another one. Our justice system needs the flexibility to recognise and deal with dealing with these kinds of offenders before they go on to destroy other lives. This is not retribution, it is self-defence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What's the point in saddling the rest of society, against whom this waste of carbon and oxygen has continually offended, with a bill for the next 30 or 40 years at $100,000 a year? A .223 round costs only about 50 cents and problem solved.

 



Civilised nations don't condone state murder.There is always a better way.

 

 

 

Euthanising rabid mammals is not murder.

 

Do please share your better way of keeping this clearly insane person from our streets at modest cost, however.....






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  Reply # 1586128 5-Jul-2016 09:17
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Geektastic:

 

 

 

Euthanising rabid mammals is not murder.

 

Do please share your better way of keeping this clearly insane person from our streets at modest cost, however.....

 

 

 

 

I will answer that when I am in much less pain and my mind less clouded





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1586154 5-Jul-2016 09:35
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dickytim:

 

 

 

On this I agree, and for the most part this person has demonstrated that they need to be locked up for a looooong time for the greater good. This is like the repeat offenders mentioned in other threads, and you do tend to miss the point that jail time is as much about protecting society as punishing criminals, be it from violence or theft/ dishonesty.

 

Will you concede this?

 

 

Are you asking me? There is nothing to concede as I have never argued against this. People who are clearly a danger to society and beyond redemption certainly should be locked  up for the good of everyone else. I don't deny there are people like  this. But these are not the offenders I am talking about. Those who bay for harsher sentences, especially for lesser offences, just want payback. This doesn't help anyone. All the evidence, and there is plenty, suggests that longer and harsher sentences do not protect society. They don't prevent repeat offending. All they do is create criminals  with a grudge. If this approach worked I wouldn't object to it, but it doesn't. Places with lots of prisons and long sentences do not have less crime. If anything, they have more. Places that emphasise humane treatment and rehabilitation, as in Scandinavia, have less. So what is the logic of harsher punishments? Why keep hammering on something that has been shown not to work just because it makes you feel better? If you really want to reduce crime, do the thing that has been shown to work. I don't understand why people have such a hard time getting this.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1586163 5-Jul-2016 09:43
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Geektastic:

 

Rikkitic:

 

As my posts make clear, I do not believe harsh sentences help with rehabilitation or even prevention. However, I do believe some people are so damaged or deformed that they must be kept locked up to protect everyone else. We have had a few of those in recent years. Maybe this is another one. Our justice system needs the flexibility to recognise and deal with dealing with these kinds of offenders before they go on to destroy other lives. This is not retribution, it is self-defence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What's the point in saddling the rest of society, against whom this waste of carbon and oxygen has continually offended, with a bill for the next 30 or 40 years at $100,000 a year? A .223 round costs only about 50 cents and problem solved.

 

 

Great idea! Maybe we could extend it to grumpy old men who waste carbon and oxygen posting outrageous comments. 

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 




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  Reply # 1586164 5-Jul-2016 09:43
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Rikkitic:

 

dickytim:

 

 

 

On this I agree, and for the most part this person has demonstrated that they need to be locked up for a looooong time for the greater good. This is like the repeat offenders mentioned in other threads, and you do tend to miss the point that jail time is as much about protecting society as punishing criminals, be it from violence or theft/ dishonesty.

 

Will you concede this?

 

 

Are you asking me? There is nothing to concede as I have never argued against this. People who are clearly a danger to society and beyond redemption certainly should be locked  up for the good of everyone else. I don't deny there are people like  this. But these are not the offenders I am talking about. Those who bay for harsher sentences, especially for lesser offences, just want payback. This doesn't help anyone. All the evidence, and there is plenty, suggests that longer and harsher sentences do not protect society. They don't prevent repeat offending. All they do is create criminals  with a grudge. If this approach worked I wouldn't object to it, but it doesn't. Places with lots of prisons and long sentences do not have less crime. If anything, they have more. Places that emphasise humane treatment and rehabilitation, as in Scandinavia, have less. So what is the logic of harsher punishments? Why keep hammering on something that has been shown not to work just because it makes you feel better? If you really want to reduce crime, do the thing that has been shown to work. I don't understand why people have such a hard time getting this.

 

 

 

 

Having lived in Scandinavia I must disagree with respect to your comments on their prison system.   They have very homogeneous societies (although this is now changing) with strong family structures and high societal pressure to conform. 

 

Quite unlike New Zealand.  I'm pretty sure the Scandinavian rehabilitation / prison system would fail in NZ. 

 

 We simply do not have the same support structures once inmates are released. And, you can't build these with money.   These are things like family values, belonging to a group where people expect you to change, etc. ...  The underclass in NZ is of sufficient size where there is no pressure to change from anyone in your daily contact list. 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1586169 5-Jul-2016 09:50
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Geektastic:

 

MikeB4:
Geektastic:

 

Rikkitic:

 

 

 

As my posts make clear, I do not believe harsh sentences help with rehabilitation or even prevention. However, I do believe some people are so damaged or deformed that they must be kept locked up to protect everyone else. We have had a few of those in recent years. Maybe this is another one. Our justice system needs the flexibility to recognise and deal with dealing with these kinds of offenders before they go on to destroy other lives. This is not retribution, it is self-defence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What's the point in saddling the rest of society, against whom this waste of carbon and oxygen has continually offended, with a bill for the next 30 or 40 years at $100,000 a year? A .223 round costs only about 50 cents and problem solved.

 



Civilised nations don't condone state murder.There is always a better way.

 

 

 

Euthanising rabid mammals is not murder.

 

Do please share your better way of keeping this clearly insane person from our streets at modest cost, however.....

 

 

Another idiotic comment not worthy of a serious response. A human being, however damaged, is not a rabid dog. There should be no more talk about euthanising people. That is a direction this discussion does not need to go in.





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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