Changes to DLM Incoming

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#1786086 22-May-2017 16:32

smalltrader:

Don't believe VDSL Vectoring is enabled in NZ. Capabilities is probably in the hardware but vectoring is not compatible to LLU (local loop unbundling) currently which is ashame.

They could at least enable it on the cabinets where there isnt any other ISPs gear in place for those of us suffering terrible performance and waiting on fiber.

Richard rich.ms

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#1786142 22-May-2017 19:12

richms:

smalltrader:

Don't believe VDSL Vectoring is enabled in NZ. Capabilities is probably in the hardware but vectoring is not compatible to LLU (local loop unbundling) currently which is ashame.

They could at least enable it on the cabinets where there isnt any other ISPs gear in place for those of us suffering terrible performance and waiting on fiber.

Talking to the right people within chorus who do want to make use of all these technologies, there is actually a long process for adding the capability in terms of testing.

Look at ddDLM, that was quite some testing, and still we had random issues that came up which had to be taken back to suppliers to work out.

The other problem we have is, Capitalization happened really early in NZ, some of our gear simply is not capable of preforming the new features on copper. In this case i'd put the question to you, Would you rather chorus put the big dollars into Fibre rollouts or did an austrila and go "FTTN" everywhere like 2004!

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#1786176 22-May-2017 20:10

That is a somewhat valid point if its not just a software upgrade to make it happen then it would take $ away from important things. But there will probably be people on copper for a very long time, particually in rural areas so it wouldnt be a total waste researching getting the gear they have doing it.

Not sure how a reduction in pairs being used will go affect vectoring. At the moment I think all pairs but the 2 unused ones coming to my house on the cable down the drive have VDSL on them, crosstalk is massive on it. That is where vectoring is supposed to help out. I expect that once fiber comes along the number of DSL connections will drop overnight (well however long it takes for the installs to happen) to none, meaning that the others on that bundle down the road who dont get fiber will find themselves on a much better connection. Meaning that vectoring might not matter too much long term.

Richard rich.ms

nickt

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#1787221 24-May-2017 08:19

Got my first improvement overnight with SNR dropping from 12 to 6dB, sync up from 59/9.5 to 70/12.5, on 8b profile to an Ikanos card with 10dB attenuation. Had pretty much given up on ddDLM so that was a nice surprise.

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#1787305 24-May-2017 10:27

nickt: Got my first improvement overnight with SNR dropping from 12 to 6dB, sync up from 59/9.5 to 70/12.5, on 8b profile to an Ikanos card with 10dB attenuation. Had pretty much given up on ddDLM so that was a nice surprise.

Yes, nice to see some DLM action at last.

Previous sync was 73/10 14ms ping with a 6dB SNR Margin (lowered with Draytek modem command - see my previous posts).

VDSL Information:      VDSL Firmware Version:05-07-09-0F-01-07
Mode:8B                  State:SHOWTIME   TX Block:0     RX Block:0
Corrected Blocks:1     Uncorrected Blocks:1847
UP Speed:10420000   Down Speed:82523000   SNR Margin:0   Loop Att.:9

  ---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------
   Running Mode            :       8B               State                : SHOWTIME
   DS Actual Rate          : 82523000 bps      US Actual Rate       : 10420000 bps
   DS Attainable Rate      : 81635064 bps      US Attainable Rate   : 10375000 bps
   DS Path Mode            :  Interleave          US Path Mode         :        Fast
   DS Interleave Depth     :      254              US Interleave Depth  :       16
   NE Current Attenuation  :        9 dB          Cur SNR Margin       :        0  dB
   DS actual PSD           :   -12.-9 dB           US actual PSD        :    15. 6  dB
   NE CRC Count            :     1847                FE CRC Count         :        1
   NE ES Count             :      983                 FE  ES Count         :        1
   Xdsl Reset Times        :        0      Xdsl Link  Times     :        2
   ITU Version[0]          : b5004946               ITU Version[1]       : 544e0000
   VDSL Firmware Version   : 05-07-09-0F-01-07   [with Vectoring support]
   Power Management Mode   : DSL_G997_PMS_L0
   Test Mode               : DISABLE
  -------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
   Far Current Attenuation :        8 dB    Far SNR Margin       :       11  dB
   CO ITU Version[0]       : b5004244       CO ITU Version[1]    : 434da3f5
   DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR    : < BDCM >

Speed test 76.43/10.06 12ms ping still on an 8B profile.

timmay556

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#1787423 24-May-2017 13:15

timmay556:

Ah yep, we are still on 12db

Hey guys, I've just seen this, does this mean our box has been upgraded???

hio77

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#1787437 24-May-2017 13:27

looks like ddDLM has moved you from 12dB to 6dB on the upstream.

Upstream is commonly the first channel ddDLM hits as it can drop alot lower before becoming unstable.

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openmedia

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#1787451 24-May-2017 13:45

Any ideas what is pulling down my upload speed? Before DLM I was on around 1Mbit upload.

DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 728 / 17.086
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0,00 / 1,00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: -9,0 / 0,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 11,0 / 21,0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 10,0 / 7,5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IKNS

Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC as a Technology Evangelist and Portfolio Architect. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.

coffeebaron

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#1787567 24-May-2017 16:39

openmedia:

Any ideas what is pulling down my upload speed? Before DLM I was on around 1Mbit upload.

DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 728 / 17.086
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0,00 / 1,00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: -9,0 / 0,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 11,0 / 21,0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 10,0 / 7,5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IKNS

I have a suspicion that your line is a multiple :( I suspect this is why you probably can't have VDSL.

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#1787587 24-May-2017 16:57

coffeebaron:

openmedia:

Any ideas what is pulling down my upload speed? Before DLM I was on around 1Mbit upload.

DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 728 / 17.086
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0,00 / 1,00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: -9,0 / 0,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 11,0 / 21,0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 10,0 / 7,5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IKNS

I have a suspicion that your line is a multiple :( I suspect this is why you probably can't have VDSL.

Would that be MPF based on https://www.geekzone.co.nz/sbiddle/8357?

Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC as a Technology Evangelist and Portfolio Architect. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.

allio

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#1787673 24-May-2017 18:02

datahawk:

nickt: Got my first improvement overnight with SNR dropping from 12 to 6dB, sync up from 59/9.5 to 70/12.5, on 8b profile to an Ikanos card with 10dB attenuation. Had pretty much given up on ddDLM so that was a nice surprise.

Yes, nice to see some DLM action at last.

Previous sync was 73/10 14ms ping with a 6dB SNR Margin (lowered with Draytek modem command - see my previous posts).

VDSL Information:      VDSL Firmware Version:05-07-09-0F-01-07
Mode:8B                  State:SHOWTIME   TX Block:0     RX Block:0
Corrected Blocks:1     Uncorrected Blocks:1847
UP Speed:10420000   Down Speed:82523000   SNR Margin:0   Loop Att.:9
  ---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------
   Running Mode            :       8B               State                : SHOWTIME
   DS Actual Rate          : 82523000 bps      US Actual Rate       : 10420000 bps
   DS Attainable Rate      : 81635064 bps      US Attainable Rate   : 10375000 bps
   DS Path Mode            :  Interleave          US Path Mode         :        Fast
   DS Interleave Depth     :      254              US Interleave Depth  :       16
   NE Current Attenuation  :        9 dB          Cur SNR Margin       :        0  dB
   DS actual PSD           :   -12.-9 dB           US actual PSD        :    15. 6  dB
   NE CRC Count            :     1847                FE CRC Count         :        1
   NE ES Count             :      983                 FE  ES Count         :        1
   Xdsl Reset Times        :        0      Xdsl Link  Times     :        2
   ITU Version[0]          : b5004946               ITU Version[1]       : 544e0000
   VDSL Firmware Version   : 05-07-09-0F-01-07   [with Vectoring support]
   Power Management Mode   : DSL_G997_PMS_L0
   Test Mode               : DISABLE
  -------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
   Far Current Attenuation :        8 dB    Far SNR Margin       :       11  dB
   CO ITU Version[0]       : b5004244       CO ITU Version[1]    : 434da3f5
   DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR    : < BDCM >

Speed test 76.43/10.06 12ms ping still on an 8B profile.

82mbps on 8b! That's something I've never seen before. Really don't understand why your line hasn't flipped to 17a.

I saw a tweak too:

> vdsl status
---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------
Running Mode : 17A State : SHOWTIME
DS Actual Rate : 70015000 bps US Actual Rate : 17602000 bps
DS Attainable Rate : 79776792 bps US Attainable Rate : 17808000 bps
DS Path Mode : Interleave US Path Mode : Interleave
DS Interleave Depth : 312 US Interleave Depth : 517
NE Current Attenuation : 11 dB Cur SNR Margin : 8 dB
DS actual PSD : -3.-6 dB US actual PSD : 14. 5 dB
NE CRC Count : 1 FE CRC Count : 2999
NE ES Count : 1 FE ES Count : 2666
Xdsl Reset Times : 0 Xdsl Link Times : 2
ITU Version[0] : b5004946 ITU Version[1] : 544e0000
VDSL Firmware Version : 05-07-06-0D-01-07 [with Vectoring support]
Power Management Mode : DSL_G997_PMS_L0
Test Mode : DISABLE
-------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
Far Current Attenuation : 13 dB Far SNR Margin : 5 dB
CO ITU Version[0] : b500494b CO ITU Version[1] : 4e530101
DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR : < IKNS >
>

Previous sync was 68/14 at 8/8 SNR. So I've dropped to 8/5dB SNR, grabbed another few mbps of sync, but gained even more interleaving. More speed is welcome (particularly the upstream, which is starting to look almost respectable), but this wasn't really what I was expecting... is this interleaving ever going to go away?

freakngeek

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#1787699 24-May-2017 18:53

Draytek have just released new Firmware 3.8.1.2 for DV130
I've been using Modem 8 for since Vectoring was added to the FW
Getting performance as seen in previous pages

So thought I'd try some other firmware versions with ddDLM now well entrenched and update to 3.8.1.2
I downloaded 3x different FW's, installed them all using Factory reset file
NO SNR tweaking used in these tests.

STD = I think most users would normally use this, 8b Profile the fastest upload connection

Modem 4 = (vectoring support) 8b profile, faster DS connection, slower US connection then above

Modem 8 = (NBN optimised+vectoring support) 17a profile, fastest DS connection, 2nd fastest US, Attenuation up 2db, giving some FECS errors on DS, hard to tell on US as these figures must come from Cabinet ? as they are remembered even after a factory reset.

17a profile for me at least giving better download connection speed, not necessarily better experience, I think a few packets are getting resent as Speednet test aren't as efficient as 8b profile (achieved vs achievable)

Modem STD

Modem 4

Modem 8

I need to STD FW again to see if the Upstream is just a one off

datahawk

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#1787701 24-May-2017 18:58

allio:

82mbps on 8b! That's something I've never seen before. Really don't understand why your line hasn't flipped to 17a.

Yes, 82Mbps on 8B was looking quite good but after monitoring it all day the CRC errors started to get a bit scary. The Draytek SNR adjustment plus DLM lowering it early this morning was taxing the connection too much...

NE CRC Count : 8370 FE CRC Count : 10
NE ES Count : 4634 FE ES Count : 8

I gave up and reset the modem VDSL SNR Margin from -50 back to 0 (default) just after 5pm tonight. Modem restarted with this....

Mode:8B    State:SHOWTIME   TX Block:0   RX Block:0
Corrected Blocks:13   Uncorrected Blocks:0
UP Speed:10003000   Down Speed:74367000   SNR Margin:6   Loop Att.:9
---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------
Running Mode : 8B                          State : SHOWTIME
DS Actual Rate : 74367000 bps         US Actual Rate : 10003000 bps
DS Attainable Rate : 74268648 bps    US Attainable Rate : 10016000 bps
DS Path Mode : Interleave              US Path Mode : Fast
DS Interleave Depth : 248              US Interleave Depth : 16
NE Current Attenuation : 9 dB         Cur SNR Margin : 6 dB
DS actual PSD : -12.-7 dB                US actual PSD : 16. 2 dB
NE CRC Count : 0                            FE CRC Count : 13
NE ES Count : 0 FE                          ES Count : 11
Xdsl Reset Times : 0                        Xdsl Link Times : 1
ITU Version[0] : b5004946                ITU Version[1] : 544e0000
VDSL Firmware Version : 05-07-09-0F-01-07 [with Vectoring support]
Power Management Mode : DSL_G997_PMS_L0
Test Mode : DISABLE
-------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
Far Current Attenuation : 8 dB            Far SNR Margin : 12 dB
CO ITU Version[0] : b5004244 CO        ITU Version[1] : 434da3f5
DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR : < BDCM >

Lost 8Mbps down speed but the SNR default setting should kill the CRC errors. The default Near End SNR Margin has dropped to 6dB (from a previous 12dB) so maybe ddDLM will take another look at our stats and try pushing us to 17A.

Our Far End SNR is still up around 12dB which may be the blocker because everything else looks fine.

coffeebaron

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#1787750 24-May-2017 19:52

openmedia:

coffeebaron:

openmedia:

Any ideas what is pulling down my upload speed? Before DLM I was on around 1Mbit upload.

DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 728 / 17.086
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0,00 / 1,00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: -9,0 / 0,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 11,0 / 21,0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 10,0 / 7,5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IKNS

I have a suspicion that your line is a multiple :( I suspect this is why you probably can't have VDSL.

Would that be MPF based on https://www.geekzone.co.nz/sbiddle/8357?

Something like that: "Bridged taps can also exist in Chorus wiring external to your home where wiring may be looped down your street."

You probably need to get a Chorus tech out to confirm this. Maybe log a fault for drop in upstream sync, but be prepared to pay for NFF. And if you do, make sure you are there to ask the Chorus tech questions.

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coffeebaron

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#1787751 24-May-2017 19:54

@openmedia are you Spark?? cc @hio77

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