Annex M on Chorus network

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2082 posts

Uber Geek

#928662 7-Nov-2013 11:51

Well if all they're looking for is a doubling of upstream rate to 1.5-2 Mbps (typical ADSL2+ annex M upstream rates in annex A environment due to band plan interference) then that will be achieved, distance to exchange has no significant real world impact on annex M upstream rate.

Kirdog: if i want to test compass ADSL (if they will enable annexM), is it possible to connect the second separate line?

Yes most people have two copper pairs ready to connect at the ETP however you will need to pay for wiring if you don't have any jacks in the house.

You can only get ADSL2+ annex M through Slingshot and Compass MSANs. If you are paying the 'Compass Zone' price then it should mean you are connected to their MSAN for broadband.

Kirdog

202 posts

Master Geek

#928803 7-Nov-2013 14:25

Kirdog: if i want to test compass ADSL (if they will enable annexM), is it possible to connect the second separate line?

Yes most people have two copper pairs ready to connect at the ETP however you will need to pay for wiring if you don't have any jacks in the house.

I have 4 pair running from the ETP to the house (cat5e UTP cable), i can do the wiring, no problem here. But i don't know is it any spare pair can be connected from the cabinet/exchange to my ETP.

This is my "ETP":

[Click on image to look bigger size]

I opened this for master filter installation 4 month ago. Seems it is possible to connect second line. Anyone know the cost/price of SHDSL from Compass?

Sorry about my English guys :>

hio77

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Lizard Networks

#928809 7-Nov-2013 14:41

if im not mistaken, compass SHDSL is the following.. http://www.compassbusiness.net.nz/Broadband-Services#three

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michaelmurfy

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#928831 7-Nov-2013 15:08

hio77: if im not mistaken, compass SHDSL is the following.. http://www.compassbusiness.net.nz/Broadband-Services#three

You'll also need a modem that supports SHDSL

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hio77

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#928842 7-Nov-2013 15:22

michaelmurfy:
hio77: if im not mistaken, compass SHDSL is the following.. http://www.compassbusiness.net.nz/Broadband-Services#three

You'll also need a modem that supports SHDSL

that too, i figured that could come under whatever contract gets signed.. cant say i have ever looked past shdsl aside from, its more expensive than ild like to pay!

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eXDee

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#928886 7-Nov-2013 16:22

I'm sure i've seen discussions of port bonding on here once. Is this possible these days? Probably more than the OP wants to pay though.
And there's always load balancing as another option but this only works well for multiple connections.

Coil

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#928992 7-Nov-2013 18:39

Kirdog:
Kirdog: if i want to test compass ADSL (if they will enable annexM), is it possible to connect the second separate line?
Yes most people have two copper pairs ready to connect at the ETP however you will need to pay for wiring if you don't have any jacks in the house.

I have 4 pair running from the ETP to the house (cat5e UTP cable), i can do the wiring, no problem here. But i don't know is it any spare pair can be connected from the cabinet/exchange to my ETP.

This is my "ETP":

[Click on image to look bigger size]

I opened this for master filter installation 4 month ago. Seems it is possible to connect second line. Anyone know the cost/price of SHDSL from Compass?

On the subject of ETP

This is my ETP, Prepped for VDSL.
**EDIT, I swear drop box is like apple. Good on paper. Completely horrible to use.**
https://www.dropbox.com/s/g7xoxl42hpguzwf/2013-11-07%2018.33.00.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/aob69l4q0n4bad5/2013-11-07%2018.32.43.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/767ue4sc4aas6qz/2013-11-07%2018.32.00.jpg

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Kirdog

202 posts

Master Geek

#929082 7-Nov-2013 20:32

TimA:
Kirdog:
Kirdog: if i want to test compass ADSL (if they will enable annexM), is it possible to connect the second separate line?
Yes most people have two copper pairs ready to connect at the ETP however you will need to pay for wiring if you don't have any jacks in the house.

I have 4 pair running from the ETP to the house (cat5e UTP cable), i can do the wiring, no problem here. But i don't know is it any spare pair can be connected from the cabinet/exchange to my ETP.

This is my "ETP":

[Click on image to look bigger size]

I opened this for master filter installation 4 month ago. Seems it is possible to connect second line. Anyone know the cost/price of SHDSL from Compass?

On the subject of ETP

This is my ETP, Prepped for VDSL.
https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Camera%20Uploads/2013-11-07%2018.32.00.jpg?w=AACVuHamAeJos_s6mT27opcdkhQ5bKYPyOSDIZNOEPqqwQ
https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Camera%20Uploads/2013-11-07%2018.32.43.jpg?w=AAANDwni_cS1vBC43DIIbUGkfzEre73i5_lmtW5zNOBmxQ
https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Camera%20Uploads/2013-11-07%2018.33.00.jpg?w=AAAXeHTwc34IlYzIidz6a_Ml-02ANB2DXQMYfnkxSvk3CA
https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Camera%20Uploads/2013-11-07%2018.32.47.jpg?w=AACkY7icZ88ehBK_FY9L6lSe_X1tvTNZGIixhCf8ttlKWQ

Can't see photos for some reason (error 403).

I know what is ETP box, but i don't have it, this is actually last box between my telephone wall point and cable from exchange/cabinet. :)

Sorry about my English guys :>

techmeister

310 posts

Ultimate Geek

#930288 10-Nov-2013 16:02

Talkiet:
techmeister:

I said I would willing to pay a bit more, I am thinking SHDSL is not cheap but might be worth looking at.

How about an indication of how much extra you'd be prepared to pay for something like Annex M? I suspect perhaps that you're being a bit disingenuous by suggesting you're prepared to pay more.

If we assume a $10 premium from ADSL2+ to VDSL, and that gives (broadly) double the downstream and 10 times the upstream, but Annex M only gives the same downstream and maybe double the upstream - then are you thinking something like $1-$3 extra per month?

Because that's nothing.

As others have pointed out, Annex M isn't going to happen on Chorus gear. The reasons are a combination of economic and engineering and I'm not going into them in any depth.

You do have options, none of which are going to be within $5/month of a cheap consumer grade ADSL connection.

Cheers - N

No, you are totally missing the point.

I and a lot of my business customers cannot get VDSL2 (too far from exchange) this is the kind of speed businesses want and need so the only other similarly priced option is
ADSL2+, I would be at least willing to pay VDSL2 $10 difference for an annex M option maybe even a bit more.
FYI, I know what I can get at my house on annex M look at my sig at the bottom.
and when your using real time communication apps that extra upload speed makes all the difference, so yes it is worth it.
Just out of interest I have a customer that lives maybe 200 metres up the road at a new suburb they are all connected to a conklin cabinet
and I did a speed test on his broadband he got 1.7Mps down and 800Kbps up, so his download speed was the same as my upload speed when I was on annex M connection but he uses it and thinks it is a great thing.

So 1.7Mps upload speed is very good to have.

techmeister

310 posts

Ultimate Geek

#930292 10-Nov-2013 16:08

TimA:
Talkiet:
techmeister:

I said I would willing to pay a bit more, I am thinking SHDSL is not cheap but might be worth looking at.

How about an indication of how much extra you'd be prepared to pay for something like Annex M? I suspect perhaps that you're being a bit disingenuous by suggesting you're prepared to pay more.

If we assume a $10 premium from ADSL2+ to VDSL, and that gives (broadly) double the downstream and 10 times the upstream, but Annex M only gives the same downstream and maybe double the upstream - then are you thinking something like $1-$3 extra per month?

Because that's nothing.

As others have pointed out, Annex M isn't going to happen on Chorus gear. The reasons are a combination of economic and engineering and I'm not going into them in any depth.

You do have options, none of which are going to be within $5/month of a cheap consumer grade ADSL connection.

Cheers - N

Hi,

I checked his address and did a prequalification.
He can only get ADSL, He lives dead on the edge of the cabinetised area and MDF. No pairs from the cabinet. He is in Vodafone LLU area and if i did ANNEX-M it wouldnt even make a noticable difference, We could try but i wouldnt suspect anything of an increase (Not a VF customer anwyay)..
The ONLY option is wireless for a higher upload, no NGA (UFB) no VDSL.

16 - 17 dB ADSL2+: 12.0 - 12.5 Mb/s, VDSL2: 0.0 - 0.0 Mb/s ADSL2+: 1.0 - 1.0 Mb/s, VDSL2: 0.0 - 0.0 Mb/s Unknown BUBA FS/FS, EUBA 40, EUBA 90, EUBA 0, EUBA 180, BUBA 256/128, Baseband Copper WVS 0, NGA, Baseband IP Y N Copper MAB MAB - MDF

Regards

I know what I would get I have been on a Slingshot LLU gear and had annex M and was getting 1.7Mps upload look at my sig below on Chorus gear I get 700Kbps in any body's book that is a big difference.

insane

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#930315 10-Nov-2013 17:14

eXDee: I'm sure i've seen discussions of port bonding on here once. Is this possible these days? Probably more than the OP wants to pay though.
And there's always load balancing as another option but this only works well for multiple connections.

Yes it is possible to bond connections, and from the ISPs point of view its fairly trivial to setup as some BRAS/LNS will automatically 'group' the sessions together. Of course you need the CPE which supports this, but if you 'really' need such a service then the cost of the router shouldn't be an issue.

Would ISPs offer this as residential product? doubtful. SNAP used to, and other could if they wanted to, but the market is so small it's not worth the effort. Imagine having to train the whole support desk for a single customer.

I think Niel's line of questioning is very relevant here, would the OP be willing to pay $1000 per month for it, I'm guessing probably not?

coffeebaron

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#930321 10-Nov-2013 17:30

Why don't you give Callplus a call. They are basically the business ISP of Slingshot, so assume they would be using the same ULL gear.

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michaelmurfy

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#930331 10-Nov-2013 18:15

techmeister:

No, you are totally missing the point.

I and a lot of my business customers cannot get VDSL2 (too far from exchange) this is the kind of speed businesses want and need so the only other similarly priced option is
ADSL2+, I would be at least willing to pay VDSL2 $10 difference for an annex M option maybe even a bit more.
FYI, I know what I can get at my house on annex M look at my sig at the bottom.
and when your using real time communication apps that extra upload speed makes all the difference, so yes it is worth it.
Just out of interest I have a customer that lives maybe 200 metres up the road at a new suburb they are all connected to a conklin cabinet
and I did a speed test on his broadband he got 1.7Mps down and 800Kbps up, so his download speed was the same as my upload speed when I was on annex M connection but he uses it and thinks it is a great thing.

So 1.7Mps upload speed is very good to have.

Ugh, Annex M is not available on Chorus equipment, end of story.

Also if your friend is on a Conklin or an ASAM there's nothing you can do apart from going wireless to give them better bandwidth. Same goes for everyone else in this thread who is complaining about the lack of Annex M. If you want faster internet, pay for it. You're not going to get a dedicated premium wireless service with a 500gb cap for $100. You guys are willing to pay for a faster connection but not willing to pay much more than what you are now and that's the problem.

You're never going to get Annex M out of this thread so I don't know why it's still going on. There's SHDSL or premium Wireless and both cost vastly more than the connection you're on now. Take it or leave it.

techmeister

310 posts

Ultimate Geek

#930335 10-Nov-2013 18:27

michaelmurfy:
techmeister:

No, you are totally missing the point.

I and a lot of my business customers cannot get VDSL2 (too far from exchange) this is the kind of speed businesses want and need so the only other similarly priced option is
ADSL2+, I would be at least willing to pay VDSL2 $10 difference for an annex M option maybe even a bit more.
FYI, I know what I can get at my house on annex M look at my sig at the bottom.
and when your using real time communication apps that extra upload speed makes all the difference, so yes it is worth it.
Just out of interest I have a customer that lives maybe 200 metres up the road at a new suburb they are all connected to a conklin cabinet
and I did a speed test on his broadband he got 1.7Mps down and 800Kbps up, so his download speed was the same as my upload speed when I was on annex M connection but he uses it and thinks it is a great thing.

So 1.7Mps upload speed is very good to have.

Ugh, Annex M is not available on Chorus equipment, end of story.

Also if your friend is on a Conklin or an ASAM there's nothing you can do apart from going wireless to give them better bandwidth. Same goes for everyone else in this thread who is complaining about the lack of Annex M. If you want faster internet, pay for it. You're not going to get a dedicated premium wireless service with a 500gb cap for $100. You guys are willing to pay for a faster connection but not willing to pay much more than what you are now and that's the problem.

You're never going to get Annex M out of this thread so I don't know why it's still going on. There's SHDSL or premium Wireless and both cost vastly more than the connection you're on now. Take it or leave it.

I get it, no annex M on Chorus end of story.

The thing is from the point of view of an end uniformed user you can see that it is difficult to understand why other ISP's that have their own gear in the exchange, can do annex M and yet Chorus cannot, all I started this thread for was to find out why that is the case.
So to that end I will tell all my business customers and anyone else that if you are hooked up to exchange you should go with Callplus or Slingshot problem solved end of story.

Talkiet

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#930338 10-Nov-2013 18:32

techmeister: [snip]
Then thing is from the point of view of an end uniformed user you can see that it is difficult to understand why other ISP's that have their own gear in the exchange can do annex M and yet Chorus cannot, all I started this thread for was to find out why that is the case.
So to that end I will tell all my business customers and anyone else that if you are hooked up to exchange you should go with Callplus or Slingshot problem solved end of story.

Is it really difficult to understand that an extreme niche desire (in the context of widespread VDSL and expanding UFB coverage) for Annex M isn't an attractive investment to Chorus? Simply put there's zero chance they'll ever make back the investment of building the capability. I speak from a position of having a reasonable idea of what it would take to do it too.

Now, it's ok to be annoyed or upset there's a technological capability not being made available, that's completely reasonable and I understand that - but claiming you don't understand WHY a company wouldn't bother making an investment when they'll only ever lose money from it? That's hard for me to understand...

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

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