Annex M on Chorus network

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › Annex M on Chorus network

techmeister

310 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 22

#133863 5-Nov-2013 18:52

Hi Guys

I hope that someone here is in the know about his.....maybe a Chorus guy?
Is ADSL2+ Annex M possible on Chorus gear? and if it is why can my ISP not offer it.
My ISP told me when they asked Chorus about providing annex M to there customers they told them it is not an option, but why is it not an option? The upload speed on my Chorus connection is pathetic to what I had on Slingshot gear, if they can do it then so should Chorus?
Hope someone can provide an answer.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6

6028 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 461

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#927805 5-Nov-2013 18:52

Hello... Our robot found some keywords in your post, so here is an automated reply with some important things to note regarding broadband speeds.

If you are posting regarding DSL speeds please check that

- you have reset your modem and router

- your PC (or other PCs in your LAN) is not downloading large files when you are testing

- you are not being throttled by your ISP due to going over the monthly cap

- your tests are always done on an ethernet connection to the router - do not use wireless for testing

- you read this topic and follow the instructions there.

Make sure you provide information for other users to help you. If you have not already done it, please EDIT your post and add this now:

- Your ISP and plan

- Type of connection (ADSL, ADSL2, VDSL)

- Your modem DSL stats (do not worry about posting Speedtest, we need sync rate, attenuation and noise margin)

- Your general location (or street)

- If you are rural or urban

- If you know your connection is to an exchange, cabinet or conklin

- If your connection is to a ULL or wholesale service

- If you have done an isolation test as per the link above

Most of the problems with speed are likely to be related to internal wiring issues. Read this discussion to find out more about this. Your ISP is not intentionally slowing you down today (unless you are on a managed plan). Also if this is the school holidays it's likely you will notice slower than usual speed due to more users online.

A master splitter is required for VDSL2 and in most cases will improve speeds on DSL connections. Regular disconnections can be a monitored alarm or a set top box trying to connect. If there's an alarm connected to your line even if you don't have an alarm contract it may still try to connect so it's worth checking.

I recommend you read these two blog posts:

- Is your premises phone wiring impacting your broadband performance? (very technical)

- Are you receiving a substandard ULL ADSL2+ connection from your ISP?

I am the Geekzone Robot and I am here to help. I am from the Internet. I do not interact. Do not expect other replies from me.

Referral links: Quic Broadband (free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE) | Samsung | AliExpress | Wise | Sharesies

Support Geekzone by subscribing (browse ads-free), or making a one-off or recurring donation through PressPatron.

RunningMan

9184 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4834

#927816 5-Nov-2013 19:04

Chorus don't offer annex M. It is only available from some of the ULL providers.

Sounddude

I fix stuff!
1935 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 640

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#927817 5-Nov-2013 19:05

Chorus gear does support AnnexM but Chorus are not willing to enable it.

Not sure on the reasons, but its probably the cost of development and testing.

If you need AnnexM you are best to discuss with LLU players who have their own kit in the exchanges.

Regs

4066 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 206

Trusted

Snowflake

#927819 5-Nov-2013 19:08

pretty sure chorus don't offer annex m service, there is nothing that says they have to - all their focus and capex is probably for VDSL/UFB.

why did you move off of slingshot?

are you able to get VDSL? - that would have better upload.

Sales Engineer
Snowflake
www.snowflake.com

about.me/nzregs
Twitter: @nzregs

sbiddle

30853 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9996

Retired Mod

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#927883 5-Nov-2013 21:11

This is an issue that's been thrashed out many times on here.

Chorus don't offer Annex M and won't because there is no agreed spectrum plan in NZ and the potential performance impact on other services. If every single customer could use Annex M these issues wouldn't exist, but because they can't they do.

If you don't understand why it's an issue you'll have to do you own research. I don't have half an hour to explain in detail how xDSL works.

techmeister

310 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 22

#927936 5-Nov-2013 23:48

sbiddle: This is an issue that's been thrashed out many times on here.

Chorus don't offer Annex M and won't because there is no agreed spectrum plan in NZ and the potential performance impact on other services. If every single customer could use Annex M these issues wouldn't exist, but because they can't they do.

If you don't understand why it's an issue you'll have to do you own research. I don't have half an hour to explain in detail how xDSL works.

So guess from this you are saying there are technical reasons why Chorus don't offer annex M.
I will do some research, llu's seem to be able to do it no problem.

Lego

Shop now for Lego sets and other gifts (affiliate link).

techmeister

310 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 22

#927941 5-Nov-2013 23:54

Regs: pretty sure chorus don't offer annex m service, there is nothing that says they have to - all their focus and capex is probably for VDSL/UFB.

why did you move off of slingshot?

are you able to get VDSL? - that would have better upload.

I moved from Slingshot because of there heavy traffic shaping, but for VOIP they were very good.
I guess I can always move back, just such a come down from Slingshot to Chorus and no VDSL is not an option for me.

Ha just noticed my sig that was what I had form Slingshot and now I have 10 Mbps down and 700 Kbps up.
Sucks!

Kirdog

202 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 23

#927947 6-Nov-2013 00:46

Managers said: it's not profitable, we will not enable that.

And do not write bull**t about interference and other things...

I have done research, and there is no problem to enable that.

First of all i have saw 2 Locations with annexM in the areas:
1) where 6 houses connected via 1 thick multi-core copper cable and cable spitted on the power lines(from patchbox) to the houses. There are 4 connections are Annex A and 2 Connections Annex M, nobody have any problems with their connections.
2) where 7 houses connected via 1 thick multi-core copper cable and cable spitted on the power lines(from patchbox) to the houses. There are 5 connections are Annex A and 1 Connection Annex M, nobody have any problems with their connections.

Explain to me please, why those people don't have any problems?

Sorry about my English guys :>

hio77

'That VDSL Cat'
13036 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3896

ID Verified

Trusted

Lizard Networks

Subscriber

#927948 6-Nov-2013 01:19

Kirdog: Managers said: it's not profitable, we will not enable that.

And do not write bull**t about interference and other things...

I have done research, and there is no problem to enable that.

First of all i have saw 2 Locations with annexM in the areas:
1) where 6 houses connected via 1 thick multi-core copper cable and cable spitted on the power lines(from patchbox) to the houses. There are 4 connections are Annex A and 2 Connections Annex M, nobody have any problems with their connections.
2) where 7 houses connected via 1 thick multi-core copper cable and cable spitted on the power lines(from patchbox) to the houses. There are 5 connections are Annex A and 1 Connection Annex M, nobody have any problems with their connections.

Explain to me please, why those people don't have any problems?

its not that people *will* have problems, but the potential.. take a careful look at how you define no problems, compared to optimal. to put it in simple terms, there will be cross talk.

the different layouts in the spectrum being all the evidence you really need to argue the point..

to quote internode..

In particular, “crosstalk” - the network interference caused by Annex M and Annex A services running in adjacent copper pairs within network cables - must be kept to a minimum. The Network Deployment Rules require that we assess the line attenuation on your service, and based on that attenuation we select the range of permitted Annex M connection modes.

This means that your achieved upstream mode may be slower than you expect, for reasons related to the Network Deployment Rules. These rules are not modifiable - they are the basis on which it is legal to deploy Annex M in Australia.

Kirdog, your like a dog with a bone with the subject. next time you move, i suggest you be very careful in your picking.. your not going to manage to argue your way to faster upload speeds short of paying for the fiber.

@OP, this is without getting very technical on it at all fyi.. you might wanna read into it a little more for your own satisfaction.

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

Kirdog

202 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 23

#927949 6-Nov-2013 02:06

Crosstalk blabla... tell me more theory...

I have provided facts about current connections, don't tell me that is not work.

I can't get other types of connection, only adsl, and i'm living just from 3 km from city central, paradox. (no fibre, no vdsl, no 802.16)

Sorry about my English guys :>

techmeister

310 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 22

#928116 6-Nov-2013 13:14

If cross talk is such a big issue with mixed annex A and M then why not make all connections standard
annex M, pretty much all ADSL2+ modems can do it.
The llu's can do it so it is possible.
The point is that the majority of people will not be getting fibre for a very long time and I will be probably last in the country no doubt lol.
If it costs Chorus some money so be it, I would even be willing to pay more for my broadband.
It just makes an ADSL2+ connection that much more useful, especially for VOIP and realtime comms.

AliExpress

Shop now on AliExpress (affiliate link).

Talkiet

4819 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3934

Trusted

#928126 6-Nov-2013 13:45

Kirdog: Crosstalk blabla... tell me more theory...

I have provided facts about current connections, don't tell me that is not work.

I can't get other types of connection, only adsl, and i'm living just from 3 km from city central, paradox. (no fibre, no vdsl, no 802.16)

Sir, you don't know what you're talking about.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

Lazarui

136 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 27

#928156 6-Nov-2013 14:34

techmeister: If cross talk is such a big issue with mixed annex A and M then why not make all connections standard
annex M, pretty much all ADSL2+ modems can do it.
The llu's can do it so it is possible.
The point is that the majority of people will not be getting fibre for a very long time and I will be probably last in the country no doubt lol.
If it costs Chorus some money so be it, I would even be willing to pay more for my broadband.
It just makes an ADSL2+ connection that much more useful, especially for VOIP and realtime comms.

You must be the only customer In the country that would be willing to pay more.

k1wi

484 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 111

#928199 6-Nov-2013 15:25

Annex M would be great, don't think I haven't looked at my sync speeds and griped about it myself but...

VDSL and UFB is 'paying more for my broadband' for increasingly more of the population. Much better bang for the buck and I'd prefer the focus go on rolling that out than diverting resources to M.

Kirdog

202 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 23

#928244 6-Nov-2013 15:57

Lazarui:
techmeister: If cross talk is such a big issue with mixed annex A and M then why not make all connections standard
annex M, pretty much all ADSL2+ modems can do it.
The llu's can do it so it is possible.
The point is that the majority of people will not be getting fibre for a very long time and I will be probably last in the country no doubt lol.
If it costs Chorus some money so be it, I would even be willing to pay more for my broadband.
It just makes an ADSL2+ connection that much more useful, especially for VOIP and realtime comms.

You must be the only customer In the country that would be willing to pay more.

I'm agree to pay more for my connection if annex M will be provided.

Sorry about my English guys :>

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6