Petition for Better Broadband Internet in Outram

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › Petition for Better Broadband Internet in Outram

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91 posts

Master Geek

#1065411 14-Jun-2014 11:21

johnr:
Axeman480:
sbiddle:
mercutio:
quickymart: Also - according to the Chorus site, you should be getting broadband around 5 Mb/s or more currently.

he was getting just over 5 megabit off peak, but 0.4 megabit on peak if you look at his graphs.

Which is still 10x faster than the Commerce Commission regulated broadband offering which needs to deliver 32kbps sustained to users over a 15 minute period.

That is a disgraceful figure and needs to be changed to reflect accessing Internet today not 10 or 12 years back.

What makes you an expert of what it should be?

0.4 - 0.5 megabit sustained over a 15 minute period would be a good start , the internet of 2014 is unusable if its any slower. If you pay $80-$150+ per month for DSL the service should be up to usable standard . If Chorus are unable to deliver on this then they are in the wrong business.

linw

2849 posts

Uber Geek

#1065424 14-Jun-2014 11:43

Wonder why you have to be an "expert" to know that 32kbps is totally unusable today with web pages loaded with graphics and an expectation that one could use, say, youtube?

DaveDog

336 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1065425 14-Jun-2014 11:46

I'd be interested to know if these disgruntled customers are actually rural people working the land or just well of townies that commute to the city each day for work, want the rural lifestyle, and are here demanding the city services.

If that's the case - then I'm not too sympathetic. I've been one of those commuting townies - and rural means that some things are different. You can't expect the same level of Internet speed because of logistics. You don't get town water and sewerage often either - are you banging onto the council about that?

MarkDn

13 posts

Geek

#1065433 14-Jun-2014 12:08

DaveDog: I'd be interested to know if these disgruntled customers are actually rural people working the land or just well of townies that commute to the city each day for work, want the rural lifestyle, and are here demanding the city services.

If that's the case - then I'm not too sympathetic. I've been one of those commuting townies - and rural means that some things are different. You can't expect the same level of Internet speed because of logistics. You don't get town water and sewerage often either - are you banging onto the council about that?

That argument is really irrelevant Dave, it makes no difference whether they commute or not or why they're living in a rural setting. I suspect you're just trolling.

mcraenz

1140 posts

Uber Geek

#1065450 14-Jun-2014 12:15

Agree that's irrelevant. However, want city grade services then live in the city. I hope to one day have a 'life style' block but the internet available will be part of the decision. As sad as that sounnds!?

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Jase2985

13459 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#1065466 14-Jun-2014 12:27

linw: Wonder why you have to be an "expert" to know that 32kbps is totally unusable today with web pages loaded with graphics and an expectation that one could use, say, youtube?

*because youtube is an essential* sarcasm

MarkDn

13 posts

Geek

#1065468 14-Jun-2014 12:32

sbiddle:
mercutio:
quickymart: Also - according to the Chorus site, you should be getting broadband around 5 Mb/s or more currently.

he was getting just over 5 megabit off peak, but 0.4 megabit on peak if you look at his graphs.

Which is still 10x faster than the Commerce Commission regulated broadband offering which needs to deliver 32kbps sustained to users over a 15 minute period.

Its actually 32kB/s (bytes) capital "B"....32k is less than dial up...

And do you think that 32kB/s standard has kept up with the demands of modern internet? no, its out of date and irrelevant. And another thing is when you have what should be a high speed adsl line and you're competing with others for bandwidth it can cause a range of other problems like insane latency, which then causes timeouts and drops, so although the speed might meet the 32 kB/s standard you quote the true picture is far worse as its not a reliable 32kB/s

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Jase2985

13459 posts

Uber Geek

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Lifetime subscriber

#1065469 14-Jun-2014 12:36

if they increase that limit, how much do you think it will cost to get those at the lower end up to the new standard?

at the end of the day its economics and the numbers dont stack up

MarkDn

13 posts

Geek

#1065472 14-Jun-2014 12:44

Jase2985: if they increase that limit, how much do you think it will cost to get those at the lower end up to the new standard?

at the end of the day its economics and the numbers dont stack up

What new standard? I'm not arguing that we should increase everyone to 20Mb/s speeds, people who live 60 miles from the nearest town and whos nearest neighbour might be kilometres away, I'm talking about suburban communities who ALREADY have good coppper phone lines and in some cases have Fiber already layed but not connected and who are situated near major cities. All you knockers keep quoting worst case scenarios which amount to strawman arguments.

Axeman480

91 posts

Master Geek

#1065482 14-Jun-2014 12:49

Jase2985: if they increase that limit, how much do you think it will cost to get those at the lower end up to the new standard?

at the end of the day its economics and the numbers dont stack up

Those areas should never have got that bad anyway .If you have dsl from years ago it should have been kept up to a usable standard. Its like buying a full bottle of milk at $2.50 in 2008 and now in 2014 your buying the full bottle but its only a quarter full and your still paying $2.50 .spells rip off to me .

mercutio

1392 posts

Uber Geek

#1065492 14-Jun-2014 12:58

Axeman480:
Jase2985: if they increase that limit, how much do you think it will cost to get those at the lower end up to the new standard?

at the end of the day its economics and the numbers dont stack up

Those areas should never have got that bad anyway .If you have dsl from years ago it should have been kept up to a usable standard. Its like buying a full bottle of milk at $2.50 in 2008 and now in 2014 your buying the full bottle but its only a quarter full and your still paying $2.50 .spells rip off to me .

yuo mean something liek:

http://intelact.com/index.php/tools/charts/item/84-fonterra-milkprice ?

DaveDog

336 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1065512 14-Jun-2014 13:13

MarkDn:
DaveDog: I'd be interested to know if these disgruntled customers are actually rural people working the land or just well of townies that commute to the city each day for work, want the rural lifestyle, and are here demanding the city services.

If that's the case - then I'm not too sympathetic. I've been one of those commuting townies - and rural means that some things are different. You can't expect the same level of Internet speed because of logistics. You don't get town water and sewerage often either - are you banging onto the council about that?

That argument is really irrelevant Dave, it makes no difference whether they commute or not or why they're living in a rural setting. I suspect you're just trolling.

Not trolling at all. The logistics are simple in terms of infrastructure cost vs return. And it's harder for these businesses to make a buck in the country. This isn't limited to ISPs either. It's a totally valid point. Need proof - try getting a pizza delivered outside the town boundary...

Talkiet

4792 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1065568 14-Jun-2014 14:48

MarkDn:
raytaylor:
NZtimbo: Er All...
Outram isn't even 10 minutes from Mosgiel where the is a full UFB upgrade happening.

Something I see alot of
"I only live XX minutes from a town, therefore we should get some of it too"

Unfortunately you can drive a long way in 10 minutes. Its not just 'a walk down the road' at 70km/h
With the physics of DSL, in terms of 5km maximum loop length etc, you actually live a long way.

Unfortunately that a bad argument, 10 minutes can take you out into the wop wop's where nobody lives or it can take you along a road to a community which has houses tax payers and phone lines, which in this case is true.

Chalk and cheese.

No. It can take you out of the reach of the current network, and to build to this new location (or upgrade), it doesn't matter if you're in the middle of nowhere or in a small rural community, it still costs money to extend the network there. It's unfortunate and I would also be upset if I was in a place with limited BB availability, but expecting to have the same (or even nearly the same) access to BB as urban areas is simply unrealistic.

As people have pointed out repeatedly, and you seem to not understand - the companies involved in building infrastructure (Chorus, LFCs, VF for RBI etc) are companies in this for the money. They have to make a profit. It's simply not fair to expect them to subsidise unprofitable users.

You can either campaign for someone (apart from yourself) like the government or local businesses etc to contribute meaningfully towards the cost of infrastructure build, or you can avail yourselves of the much higher cost mobile BB solutions.

Hoping that a private company decides your internet is more important than making money isn't going to be productive.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

Talkiet

4792 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1065569 14-Jun-2014 14:52

Axeman480:
johnr:
Axeman480:
sbiddle:
mercutio:
quickymart: Also - according to the Chorus site, you should be getting broadband around 5 Mb/s or more currently.

he was getting just over 5 megabit off peak, but 0.4 megabit on peak if you look at his graphs.

Which is still 10x faster than the Commerce Commission regulated broadband offering which needs to deliver 32kbps sustained to users over a 15 minute period.

That is a disgraceful figure and needs to be changed to reflect accessing Internet today not 10 or 12 years back.

What makes you an expert of what it should be?

0.4 - 0.5 megabit sustained over a 15 minute period would be a good start , the internet of 2014 is unusable if its any slower. If you pay $80-$150+ per month for DSL the service should be up to usable standard . If Chorus are unable to deliver on this then they are in the wrong business.

You don't have a clue as to what sort of investment this would entail. I have some idea what it would entail from a build point of view (but not costs) however I can't see it happening. There would be a vast number of locations that would never return a benefit on the investment.

Maybe All the people in rural areas should sell their lamb and milk solids for 1/3 what they do at the moment because they are so expensive in the supermarkets? Surely it's reasonable to do that if it's reasonable to expect your suppliers to lose money on supplying services?

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

Talkiet

4792 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1065570 14-Jun-2014 14:53

MarkDn:
sbiddle:
mercutio:
quickymart: Also - according to the Chorus site, you should be getting broadband around 5 Mb/s or more currently.

he was getting just over 5 megabit off peak, but 0.4 megabit on peak if you look at his graphs.

Which is still 10x faster than the Commerce Commission regulated broadband offering which needs to deliver 32kbps sustained to users over a 15 minute period.

Its actually 32kB/s (bytes) capital "B"....32k is less than dial up...

And do you think that 32kB/s standard has kept up with the demands of modern internet? no, its out of date and irrelevant. And another thing is when you have what should be a high speed adsl line and you're competing with others for bandwidth it can cause a range of other problems like insane latency, which then causes timeouts and drops, so although the speed might meet the 32 kB/s standard you quote the true picture is far worse as its not a reliable 32kB/s

No, it's 32 kbit/sec

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

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