Petition for Better Broadband Internet in Outram

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#1066081 15-Jun-2014 17:07

I have another question for the OP. What are you expecting as the outcome from your petition?

Coil

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#1066106 15-Jun-2014 17:51

quickymart: I have another question for the OP. What are you expecting as the outcome from your petition?

10gbps fibre or something.

I think we ide tified they can get RBI too and there is a wisp there.

quickymart

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#1066148 15-Jun-2014 19:31

A WISP? Wireless ISP? Which one is that?

DarthKermit

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#1066156 15-Jun-2014 19:42

I'd imagine that if and when this petition is presented to Parliament, they'd say something like: "if we make some kind of special provision for upgrading Outram's broadband, we are then bound to do it for every other township in the same situation."

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NZtimbo

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#1066280 15-Jun-2014 22:51

We are petitioning the govt through the house of representatives to get Outram added to the UFB / RBI (DSL). Whoever assumed we would petition Chorus is wrong.

I knew Boost HD and Boost VDSL are EUBA products but is worth mentioning as Chorus get more money for a better product, unfortunately one that's not avalible here, if it were I'd sign up.

I think if, and there are, other townships with this issue they should also petition. As they are also outside the upgrade areas they need to take the initiative.

We pay city rates, higher regional council rates, house prices are almost as high as the city, we pay more commute costs and we are not complaining about any of that. As I've stated before Chorus have made network changes and now we have terrible congestion, one simple solution is get the govt to add us to the upgrade map.

Satellite is sadly not an option these days, sharing the schools 100meg connection isn't practical for a town as it would soon full up with a hundredfold or so people on i. Additional costs to families is a last option even then I suspect there would be much take up, similar to getting people onto fibre in the city when they perceive their internet as good enough. If imagine we could get 80% of the people here to take up a faster / better offer if one was cost effective for families.

I went around the streets today door knocking, quite an eye opener, so many vocal people, more than I thought, some new to town shocked, many can't Skype on the evening was a common complaint, kids give up on homework, even had a great chat with an IT shop owner from Mosgiel. Almost every house knew exactly what's going on, many had already signed but I got more signatures.

6 pages now keep the comments coming.

Tim

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I must learn to be a good Kiwi and stop moaning...

Talkiet

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#1066285 15-Jun-2014 22:54

Wow Tim - you make so many false assumptions in your most recent post it's astounding.

I thoroughly appreciate what you want to ultimately happen, but if you expect anyone to take you seriously you NEED to be factual and unbiased in representing the situation.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

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gwh

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#1066329 15-Jun-2014 23:21

Talkiet: Wow Tim - you make so many false assumptions in your most recent post it's astounding.

I thoroughly appreciate what you want to ultimately happen, but if you expect anyone to take you seriously you NEED to be factual and unbiased in representing the situation.

Cheers - N

What are the false assumptions he made in his most recent post?

quickymart

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#1066333 15-Jun-2014 23:43

NZtimbo: We are petitioning the govt through the house of representatives to get Outram added to the UFB / RBI (DSL). Whoever assumed we would petition Chorus is wrong.

I knew Boost HD and Boost VDSL are EUBA products but is worth mentioning as Chorus get more money for a better product, unfortunately one that's not avalible here, if it were I'd sign up.

I think if, and there are, other townships with this issue they should also petition. As they are also outside the upgrade areas they need to take the initiative.

We pay city rates, higher regional council rates, house prices are almost as high as the city, we pay more commute costs and we are not complaining about any of that. As I've stated before Chorus have made network changes and now we have terrible congestion, one simple solution is get the govt to add us to the upgrade map.

Satellite is sadly not an option these days, sharing the schools 100meg connection isn't practical for a town as it would soon full up with a hundredfold or so people on i. Additional costs to families is a last option even then I suspect there would be much take up, similar to getting people onto fibre in the city when they perceive their internet as good enough. If imagine we could get 80% of the people here to take up a faster / better offer if one was cost effective for families.

I went around the streets today door knocking, quite an eye opener, so many vocal people, more than I thought, some new to town shocked, many can't Skype on the evening was a common complaint, kids give up on homework, even had a great chat with an IT shop owner from Mosgiel. Almost every house knew exactly what's going on, many had already signed but I got more signatures.

6 pages now keep the comments coming.

Tim

Query - what do you think makes Outram more worthy of getting an upgrade to your broadband service as opposed to some larger towns (Haast comes to mind) that can barely even get broadband at all? All they can get there is satellite. Should Middlemarch (for example) get an upgrade too? Both Outram and Middlemarch are similar in size population-wise. I'm not picking at your petition, just genuinely interested.

dejadeadnz

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#1066338 15-Jun-2014 23:58

gwh:
Talkiet: Wow Tim - you make so many false assumptions in your most recent post it's astounding.

I thoroughly appreciate what you want to ultimately happen, but if you expect anyone to take you seriously you NEED to be factual and unbiased in representing the situation.

Cheers - N

What are the false assumptions he made in his most recent post?

I quite agree with GWH. For someone who is posting as a known company staff, Talkiet you'd be wise to actually play the issue and not the man.

To the OP: I am not sure "one simple solution is get the govt to add us to the upgrade map" is as simple as that. If the government accedes to your desires, they will have a moral case for doing so for others in a similar situation -- do you know the costs and benefits equations for this? Whilst I don't agree with the tone of Talkiet's reply, it's definitely a bit optimistic to just expect plans costing in the billions to change because of some directly interested people wanting it to. If you suspect there's going to be much take up of better internet service, why not for example try making a business case to a rural provider too? As someone who's done work lobbying the government (on behalf of people who tend to have the government's ear far more readily than people in a smaller township does), it really isn't easy to get it to change its mind.

mercutio

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#1066341 16-Jun-2014 00:02

This all seems rather complicated, if it was working ok and now it's not and there's congestion, and it's not a conklin, then it's not necessarily the cabinet that's congested.

I don't know what the current state of BUBA is like, but if it got worse - didn't Telecom shift all their users off their higher dimensioning BUBA alternative to the same as wholesale? And isn't BUBA per-user dimensioning averages still there.

Could it be not that the cabinet is congested, but the handovers are congested?

All the ISP's have come out with huge plans now, but they don't seem to differentiate between BUBA and EUBA users.

So is it possible to find out if the cabinet is congesting, or whether it's just further deteriation of BUBA? And could the BUBA per user dimensions be bumped up?

From what I understand the problem isn't so much about peak speeds but the worst speeds. And I imagine upgrading the DSLAM to ADSL2 requires a new cabinet and to route new fibre.

yitz

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#1066345 16-Jun-2014 00:31

mercutio: Could it be not that the cabinet is congested, but the handovers are congested?

It'll be the ATM backbone that backhauls all those legacy ATM DSLAMs (ASAM in exchanges and cabinets, Conklin cabinets) that is congested considering how much monthly data usage has grown in last 10 years - think a single 155 Mbps ring subtended amongst 20-30 ASAMs and Conklins for entire Dunedin area. The purpose of handover link dimensioning is to protect the nationwide ATM backbones from overloading.

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mercutio

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#1066346 16-Jun-2014 00:47

yitz:
mercutio: Could it be not that the cabinet is congested, but the handovers are congested?
It'll be the ATM backbone that backhauls all those legacy ATM DSLAMs (ASAM in exchanges and cabinets, Conklin cabinets) that is congested considering how much monthly data usage has grown in last 10 years - think a single 155 Mbps ring subtended amongst 20-30 ASAMs and Conklins for entire Dunedin area. The purpose of handover link dimensioning is to protect the nationwide ATM backbones from overloading.

if that is the case, then the ring could be divided, or .. more likely it'll ease when some of them shift to RBI DSL... but the per user dimensioning probably has to be bumped up too.

sbiddle

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#1066364 16-Jun-2014 06:19

NZtimbo: , sharing the schools 100meg connection isn't practical for a town as it would soon full up with a hundredfold or so people on i.

Can we please get one thing straight here. Sharing the school's connection is NOT an option.

An RSP however can however use the fibre that has been provisioned by Chorus to the school provide services over, which could be anything right to a 10Gbps connection which will set an RSP back somewhere in the vicinity of probably $15k just to get the 10Gbps to the closest city where they'll then need to get it somewhere. Involving an RSP to provide 3rd party services is your best option, and it's something the community need to be involved with.

Out of curiosity in your door knocking did you ask who would be happy to may for more a quality broadband solution? If so what was the response?

The fundamental issue here is that you're not alone, there are still hundreds of ATM based DSLAMs and Conklins where people are suffering the exact same problems, which have only got worse with unlimited plans. The Commerce Commission should really be offering different levels of service over UBA rather than EUBA.

andrewNZ

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#1066400 16-Jun-2014 09:14

sbiddle:
NZtimbo: , sharing the schools 100meg connection isn't practical for a town as it would soon full up with a hundredfold or so people on i.

Can we please get one thing straight here. Sharing the school's connection is NOT an option.

An RSP however can however use the fibre that has been provisioned by Chorus to the school provide services over, which could be anything right to a 10Gbps connection which will set an RSP back somewhere in the vicinity of probably $15k just to get the 10Gbps to the closest city where they'll then need to get it somewhere. Involving an RSP to provide 3rd party services is your best option, and it's something the community need to be involved with.

Out of curiosity in your door knocking did you ask who would be happy to may for more a quality broadband solution? If so what was the response?

The fundamental issue here is that you're not alone, there are still hundreds of ATM based DSLAMs and Conklins where people are suffering the exact same problems, which have only got worse with unlimited plans. The Commerce Commission should really be offering different levels of service over UBA rather than EUBA.

So 15k, + hardware etc. We could say the final cost might come out at 25-30k just for setup.
What would be a ballpark cost to upgrade the exchange, considering the fibre is already running past the door?.

Cbfd

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#1066406 16-Jun-2014 09:27

Just because fibre is running past its door doesnt mean fibre will go in to it - so many thngs that have to b considered

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