Chorus refuses to upgrade us to VDSL

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › Chorus refuses to upgrade us to VDSL

ZiglioNZ

194 posts

Master Geek

#123423 7-Jul-2013 03:42

Hi everyone

given the latest drop in VDSL prices, and considering that fibre won't be available for us until 2015, the earliest, I asked a provider for an upgrade to VDSL. Here's their reply:

Chorus have mandated that although VDSL would technically be available at your
address, the service that would be provided would not meet the standard they
prefer to uphold and have therefore restricted our ability to supply that
service to anyone.

I suppose there's nothing I can do, right?
I could really do with a faster upload speed, I don't care if download speed is the same as ADSL2. It can't be worse with VDSL, can it?

Here's what reported by the modem. Better wiring could probably improve it a bit. I'm on naked ADSL:

Link Information

Uptime: 1 day, 3:38:15

DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1.073 / 13.343

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [GB/GB]: 1,99 / 1,99

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,1 / 19,1

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 10,0 / 19,5

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 12,5 / 12,3

System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----

Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / BDCM

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Link (Remote): -

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 20 / 0

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 30.988 / 30.988

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 32 / 0

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 956 / 0

[EDIT]
I'm reading a similar post here: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=49&topicid=96282
It seems like a 12dB down attenuation is their limit

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Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#850300 7-Jul-2013 03:42

Hello... Our robot found some keywords in your post, so here is an automated reply with some important things to note regarding broadband speeds.

If you are posting regarding DSL speeds please check that

- you have reset your modem and router

- your PC (or other PCs in your LAN) is not downloading large files when you are testing

- you are not being throttled by your ISP due to going over the monthly cap

- your tests are always done on an ethernet connection to the router - do not use wireless for testing

- you read this topic and follow the instructions there.

Make sure you provide information for other users to help you. If you have not already done it, please EDIT your post and add this now:

- Your ISP and plan

- Type of connection (ADSL, ADSL2, VDSL)

- Your modem DSL stats (do not worry about posting Speedtest, we need sync rate, attenuation and noise margin)

- Your general location (or street)

- If you are rural or urban

- If you know your connection is to an exchange, cabinet or conklin

- If your connection is to a ULL or wholesale service

- If you have done an isolation test as per the link above

Most of the problems with speed are likely to be related to internal wiring issues. Read this discussion to find out more about this. Your ISP is not intentionally slowing you down today (unless you are on a managed plan). Also if this is the school holidays it's likely you will notice slower than usual speed due to more users online.

A master splitter is required for VDSL2 and in most cases will improve speeds on DSL connections. Regular disconnections can be a monitored alarm or a set top box trying to connect. If there's an alarm connected to your line even if you don't have an alarm contract it may still try to connect so it's worth checking.

I recommend you read these two blog posts:

- Is your premises phone wiring impacting your broadband performance? (very technical)

- Are you receiving a substandard ULL ADSL2+ connection from your ISP?

I am the Geekzone Robot and I am here to help. I am from the Internet. I do not interact. Do not expect other replies from me.

mikenzb

371 posts

Ultimate Geek

#850306 7-Jul-2013 04:16

From another thread.

chevrolux: Unless you can shorten the local loop not much will be able to change.

Although I really don't see the point because you will just end up with an unstable product and end up complaining to Chorus when you get drop offs or your download speed isn't much better than your current ADSL2+.

They have set that 10.8dB limit for a reason and aren't going to want to waste time with customers that are out of coverage.

Thread: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=49&topicid=123276

Edit: Wrong Quote.

plambrechtsen

1948 posts

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Inactive user

#850320 7-Jul-2013 07:42

And your attenuation:

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 10,0 / 19,5

19 is quite a bit more than 10.8. Sorry to say.

sbiddle

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Biddle Corp

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#850368 7-Jul-2013 11:02

Chorus have mandated that although VDSL would technically be available at your
address, the service that would be provided would not meet the standard they
prefer to uphold and have therefore restricted our ability to supply that
service to anyone.

This is pretty much PR spin. Clearly you're outside the VDSL2 coverage map (which you can see online at www.chorus.co.nz/maps) so aren't able to get service.

Greg2012

5 posts

Wannabe Geek

#853734 11-Jul-2013 10:15

I would like to know who to contact regarding VDSL - it seems it's available in my street, but just down the road and not quite to my property.

What can I do ?

ZiglioNZ

194 posts

Master Geek

#853740 11-Jul-2013 10:39

sbiddle:

Chorus have mandated that although VDSL would technically be available at your
address, the service that would be provided would not meet the standard they
prefer to uphold and have therefore restricted our ability to supply that
service to anyone.

This is pretty much PR spin. Clearly you're outside the VDSL2 coverage map (which you can see online at www.chorus.co.nz/maps) so aren't able to get service.

I've looked at the map and various tools tell me it's available.
It's the next step that fails. One provider told me that the attenuation is not as bad as the modem shows, they say it's just above the limit set by Chorus (10.8dB).

Quote: "Your attenuation is actually better than 17 - but slightly higher than 10.8 and they won't let us even place the order...!"

trig42

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#853748 11-Jul-2013 10:52

I'm a bit in the same boat.
Coverage maps show OK, as the crow flies I'm 450m from the exchange, but my attenuation (both on the street and in my modem) shows 17. I know my (ADSL) connection has got worse in the last six months (I used to get 14mbps max attainable in my modem stats, last night when I checked it was 5.5).

A couple of very helpful people from telecom (my ISP) have been trying to help me out (and they are great). They are now trying to get chorus to shift me to a cabinet. If that doesn't work, my next step is to bug Faults until they fix my line (I have called them about 4 times from this house over the last couple of years). I am confident we will get it sorted, but not quickly :)

Can't stress enough how helpful Telecoms people have been, and how much I appreciate the service!

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

ZiglioNZ

194 posts

Master Geek

#853751 11-Jul-2013 10:58

trig42: I'm a bit in the same boat.
Coverage maps show OK, as the crow flies I'm 450m from the exchange, but my attenuation (both on the street and in my modem) shows 17. I know my (ADSL) connection has got worse in the last six months (I used to get 14mbps max attainable in my modem stats, last night when I checked it was 5.5).

A couple of very helpful people from telecom (my ISP) have been trying to help me out (and they are great). They are now trying to get chorus to shift me to a cabinet. If that doesn't work, my next step is to bug Faults until they fix my line (I have called them about 4 times from this house over the last couple of years). I am confident we will get it sorted, but not quickly :)

Can't stress enough how helpful Telecoms people have been, and how much I appreciate the service!

Well something's happening. I've now put my request through Telecom. They haven't said no but they haven't said yes yet. They're sending a technician to put the master filter, which I don't need, cause I'm using VoIP. Anyway, they'll improve the wiring. Then they'll see if thet can get VDSL for me.
Anyway, I'll end up with two VDSL modems, in case someone needs one...

sidefx

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#853765 11-Jul-2013 11:21

ZiglioNZ:
They're sending a technician to put the master filter, which I don't need, cause I'm using VoIP.

Using voip doesn't mean you don't need a master filter.

The master filter will isolate your DSL line from the rest of your house wiring. This is very important as even the presence of other unused jackpoints with nothing plugged into them (along with any other wiring) can affect DSL, especially VDSL.

"I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there." | Octopus Energy | Sharesies
- Richard Feynman

ZiglioNZ

194 posts

Master Geek

#853771 11-Jul-2013 11:31

sidefx:
ZiglioNZ:
They're sending a technician to put the master filter, which I don't need, cause I'm using VoIP.

Using voip doesn't mean you don't need a master filter.

The master filter will isolate your DSL line from the rest of your house wiring. This is very important as even the presence of other unused jackpoints with nothing plugged into them (along with any other wiring) can affect DSL, especially VDSL.

Good to know, thanks. You know I hated that paper about transmission lines ;-)

eXDee

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#853781 11-Jul-2013 11:53

As above, they have restrictions on what line conditions are to get VDSL2. I highly doubt they will budge from this, especially considering your attenuation is far above their threshold.

ZiglioNZ

194 posts

Master Geek

#853783 11-Jul-2013 11:56

eXDee: As above, they have restrictions on what line conditions are to get VDSL2. I highly doubt they will budge from this, especially considering your attenuation is far above their threshold.

As I wrote, the attenuation appears to be lower than what my modem reports, according to one provider. I quote him saying "slightly higher than 10.8".
I'm not holding my breath but one can always hope, for the gains in uplink speed that VDSL would provide.

Batman

Mad Scientist
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#853821 11-Jul-2013 12:46

ZiglioNZ:
eXDee: As above, they have restrictions on what line conditions are to get VDSL2. I highly doubt they will budge from this, especially considering your attenuation is far above their threshold.

As I wrote, the attenuation appears to be lower than what my modem reports, according to one provider. I quote him saying "slightly higher than 10.8".
I'm not holding my breath but one can always hope, for the gains in uplink speed that VDSL would provide.

that is EXACTLY why they are not providing you VDSL - they are suggesting the gains to be had is minimal, sometimes you might even get WORSE speeds than ADSL if you attenuation is not near-PERFECT

anyway i'm in the same boat - no VDSL (poor attenuation), no UFB

Batman

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#853822 11-Jul-2013 12:47

of course they are just predicting, there is only ONE way to find out ... good luck

ZiglioNZ

194 posts

Master Geek

#853825 11-Jul-2013 12:50

joker97:
ZiglioNZ:
eXDee: As above, they have restrictions on what line conditions are to get VDSL2. I highly doubt they will budge from this, especially considering your attenuation is far above their threshold.

As I wrote, the attenuation appears to be lower than what my modem reports, according to one provider. I quote him saying "slightly higher than 10.8".
I'm not holding my breath but one can always hope, for the gains in uplink speed that VDSL would provide.

that is EXACTLY why they are not providing you VDSL - they are suggesting the gains to be had is minimal, sometimes you might even get WORSE speeds than ADSL if you attenuation is not near-PERFECT

anyway i'm in the same boat - no VDSL (poor attenuation), no UFB

I've asked some providers whether I could get same speed as ADSL (not worse, VDSL should degrade to ADSL performances) and still get better uplink speed. They think so.
Even if VDSL degrades the downlink speed in favour of better uplink, I would be really happy.
One example: it takes me a whole night to upload one of my son's soccer games to youtube. Halving that time would be nice. Also I do a lot of Skype videocalls with my folks on the other side of the world.
Any improvement would be really welcome, for the next three years, if we get UFB as promised.

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