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74 posts

Master Geek


Topic # 14547 9-Jul-2007 12:01
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After having our dsl account suspended for 'Copyright Infringement', I am wondering if anyone else has ever encountered this with their ISP.

xnet suspended our account sometime this morning and were happy to 'unsuspend' it - calling it a warning, however they themselves weren't monitoring our usage, but received a takedown notice from some larger global company regarding downloading of copyrighted material. I wonder if xtra received such a notice would they act on it as xnet does?

This isn't a post complaining about it, but merely trying to find out if it is common practice etc etc, so don't bother with the flames re downloading copyrighted material in the first place.

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Reply # 77419 9-Jul-2007 12:28
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I am sure other ISPs would do the same.

But I am surprised that this kind of thing happens here in New Zealand. So what's the procedure in New Zealand? We do not have a DMCA bill like U.S., so how could a company send a "take down notice" - would it require a court order or not?









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  Reply # 77425 9-Jul-2007 12:48
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Actually it is covered by the XNet terms and conditions, and would also be covered by the terms and conditions they sign with their SP.  So if their SP sends out a notice, then they have to act upon it.  I'm also amused by it actually happening!




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Master Geek


  Reply # 77430 9-Jul-2007 13:01
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I think we are very naive here, and assume that we are untouchable.

The company, Entertainment Software Association (AKA copyright-compliance.com), sent an email to xnet, which xnet acted upon as part of their terms and conditions.

So far I've never heard of this happening to anyone else, so it came as a bit of a shock to me.

PS. Who moved the thread / topic? I posted this under broadband general as I wanted the opinion of users from other ISP's. I already know xnet does this... but would like the experience of other ISP users, which I won't get if this is under the xnet forum...

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Reply # 77435 9-Jul-2007 13:07
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So, you are saying that Xnet acted upon an email notification, without anything else?

That's not good enough in my books. I mean, those companies are well known for not having the best at their work, so they could be mistaken when claiming someone is stealing/downloading/sharing content they protect (although by reading your first post it seems it's not the case).

Anyway, how can a user protect itself from phony claims from those companies?

I am moving this back to Broadband forum then.




 







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Master Geek


  Reply # 77441 9-Jul-2007 13:18
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freitasm: So, you are saying that Xnet acted upon an email notification, without anything else?

Yes

freitasm: That's not good enough in my books. I mean, those companies are well known for not having the best at their work, so they could be mistaken when claiming someone is stealing/downloading/sharing content they protect (although by reading your first post it seems it's not the case).

It's possible but they go on IP & time, so they say this IP at this time, which can technically only be you...

freitasm: Anyway, how can a user protect itself from phony claims from those companies?

You can email them and argue the fact, but in xnet's case, it might be hard for some people... ie. those without multiple internet connections?

freitasm: I am moving this back to Broadband forum then.
 

Thanks

Here's a copy of the email I recieved from xnet, which contains the email they received.
http://hotsourceit.co.nz/xnet_takedown_notice.htm

[Moderator edit (bradstewart): Hyperlinked]


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Reply # 77442 9-Jul-2007 13:22
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Snikch:
freitasm:
That's not good enough in my books. I mean, those companies are well known for not having the best at their work, so they could be mistaken when claiming someone is stealing/downloading/sharing content they protect (although by reading your first post it seems it's not the case).

It's possible but they go on IP & time, so they say this IP at this time, which can technically only be you...



Have they ever heard of IP Spoofing? I mean, unless there's a Computer Forensics expert examining someone's PC to determine if that is really the computer downloading or sharing material there's no way to prove anything based on IP address only.





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  Reply # 77443 9-Jul-2007 13:25
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I agree, just because your IP address was the one they have on record, it does not mean it was you doing the downloading.

The most obvious example is an unsecured wireless network, and you neighbour is leaching off you!

I love it how it includes, but is not limited too. IE that was the best evidence they could come up with.



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Master Geek


  Reply # 77444 9-Jul-2007 13:27
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freitasm:
Have they ever heard of IP Spoofing? I mean, unless there's a Computer Forensics expert examining someone's PC to determine if that is really the computer downloading or sharing material there's no way to prove anything based on IP address only.




I would hate to be the person stuck without net access while trying to resolve an argument based on this.

No wonder services such as secureix are gaining popularity for completely anonymous downloading etc.


rscole86: I agree, just because your IP address was the one they have on record, it does not mean it was you doing the downloading.

The most obvious example is an unsecured wireless network, and you neighbour is leaching off you!

I love it how it includes, but is not limited too. IE that was the best evidence they could come up with.



Yea but under T&C it's your responsibility to secure your home network and stuff, so that's fair enough. It's flat situations that suck! Your flatmate gets you banned etc etc.

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Master Geek


  Reply # 77453 9-Jul-2007 13:43
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freitasm: Still, you can't prevent others spoofing your IP address, can you?



No. I would hate it if people spoofed on me...

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  Reply # 77454 9-Jul-2007 14:16
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I think your ISP should have told them to b_gger off. It seems quite harsh for XNet to have a 'two infringement notices' and you are gone policy. Xtra are the largest ISP in the country, surely they must get these notices all the time but I have never heard of them suspending someone. This is NZ a sovereign nation, we are not part of the 'Axis of the Coalition of the Willing' or what ever it is called.






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  Reply # 77470 9-Jul-2007 16:32
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Incidentally, xnet basically say that if any of their customers do anything that results in a complaint/any work that they have to do (such as say, downloading/uploading porn (doesn't have to be illegal), anything that results in embarrassment for any person) then they can close their account.  One reason why i'm not with them (on principle). See http://www.xnet.co.nz/pdfs/terms_xnet_acceptable_use_policy.pdf


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  Reply # 77473 9-Jul-2007 16:45
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timestyles:

Incidentally, xnet basically say that if any of their customers do anything that results in a complaint/any work that they have to do (such as say, downloading/uploading porn (doesn't have to be illegal), anything that results in embarrassment for any person) then they can close their account.  One reason why i'm not with them (on principle). See http://www.xnet.co.nz/pdfs/terms_xnet_acceptable_use_policy.pdf


And because you download/upload alot of porn....

Sorry couldn't resist

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Reply # 77513 9-Jul-2007 20:36
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So... not to try to get you to incriminate yourself or anything Laughing, but what kind of... um... infringement... are we talking about here & by what method?



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Master Geek


  Reply # 77519 9-Jul-2007 21:20
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The irony is this was downloading a game to replace a melted cd (via bittorrent). After all the times I've downloaded movies etc. illegally (illigitimately... immorally... irregularly?), the one time I own something and am downloading a replacement and they take action!

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