iPad Pro

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#1385052 10-Sep-2015 15:26

mattwnz:
gzt: IPad is a long way ahead of Surface in some areas so it is not surprising Apple will try to maintain and maximise that lead. The two are not comparable but there is convergence occurring in the market and risks of being left behind. Microsoft released Office for iPad Pro so they recognise that and try to keep up.

There are many iOS devices under enterprise management and this will be an easy in for Apple to expand reach there.

They are comparable in terms of Apple wanting a piece of the pro tablet market. In a way Apple is playing catchup in this market, as they like what Microsoft has done with the surface, so the ipad pro is a very similar device in terms of the typeof keyboard, pen and similar form factor. But windows 10 OS is pehaps a better OS for this sized device, than OS is. But Apple have for more tablet apps, windows has far more desktop one. Apple have made a bit of a mistake in not combining OSX and IOS yet. APparently it is planned, but it is something microsoft has already done. So I think the apple ipad pro will feel quite crippled in terms of a production device compared to the surface. Liek others have said, it is like a surface rt (without the desktop ability the RT has), but with far more tablet apps. Apple are very lucky that so many developers have developed for the ipad, and that they got in first. That is the major problem with windows 10 and it's tablet type apps.

I dont think they expect to compete with MS for business. But maybe for SME they can sell Macs, sell iPhones, sell iPads and have the natural integration coupled with corporate support to have a business presence. iOS for the ipad needs the full apps at least to do that. The cloud is lessening the no USB port to copy files issue. No file system rteally doesnt matter, there is one, its app based.

They will never combine OSX and iOS. If iOS had full serious apps, and loosening iOS restrictions, we can fully use iOS for serious stuff. Thats happening its not there yet.

Just my opinions

NZCrusader

646 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1385053 10-Sep-2015 15:27

Apple must be worried if they are moving to combat SP3.

Just to state as well, I use a SP3 and it is amazing.
Light, strong, fast (i7 variant).

Keen on SP4.

Wish we had Cortana in NZ... :'(

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Paul1977

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#1385054 10-Sep-2015 15:30

tdgeek: That the Surface can be a tablet isnt even relevant as the iPad cant be a laptop

But that's the whole point!

Are you saying that it would be unfair to compare the Surface RT and Surface Pro?

mattwnz

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#1385056 10-Sep-2015 15:35

NZCrusader:

Wish we had Cortana in NZ... :'(

We do have cortana though if you change your settings. I have been using Cortana for months with the previews and final.

gzt

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#1385057 10-Sep-2015 15:36

mattwnz:
gzt: IPad is a long way ahead of Surface in some areas so it is not surprising Apple will try to maintain and maximise that lead. The two are not comparable but there is convergence occurring in the market and risks of being left behind. Microsoft released Office for iPad Pro so they recognise that and try to keep up.

There are many iOS devices under enterprise management and this will be an easy in for Apple to expand reach there.

They are comparable in terms of Apple wanting a piece of the pro tablet market. In a way Apple is playing catchup in this market, as they like what Microsoft has done with the surface, so the ipad pro is a very similar device in terms of the typeof keyboard, pen and similar form factor. But windows 10 OS is pehaps a better OS for this sized device, than OS is. But Apple have for more tablet apps, windows has far more desktop one. Apple have made a bit of a mistake in not combining OSX and IOS yet. APparently it is planned, but it is something microsoft has already done. So I think the apple ipad pro will feel quite crippled in terms of a production device compared to the surface. Liek others have said, it is like a surface rt (without the desktop ability the RT has), but with far more tablet apps. Apple are very lucky that so many developers have developed for the ipad, and that they got in first. That is the major problem with windows 10 and it's tablet type apps.

HP and Dell will sell Surface Pro this year:

http://www.itworld.com/article/2981664/microsoft-promotes-surface-pro-tablets-for-business-through-partnerships-with-hp-dell.html

IOS in 9 is getting a multitasking desktop. The battle is getting hotter but they are still not yet on the same ground.

Lastman

306 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1385058 10-Sep-2015 15:37

It's interesting just what progress is occurring with Apple's ARM based chips. This A9X would appear to be (given the stated improvement from the A8X) competing or exceeding the i-core range in the Surface Pros, let alone those that are Atom based. This could mean Apple are close to moving away from Intel in their OSX based products. Noting the i-core products are 10-20 times the power consumption.

mattwnz

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#1385060 10-Sep-2015 15:40

tdgeek:
I dont think they expect to compete with MS for business. But maybe for SME they can sell Macs, sell iPhones, sell iPads and have the natural integration coupled with corporate support to have a business presence. iOS for the ipad needs the full apps at least to do that. The cloud is lessening the no USB port to copy files issue. No file system rteally doesnt matter, there is one, its app based.

They will never combine OSX and iOS. If iOS had full serious apps, and loosening iOS restrictions, we can fully use iOS for serious stuff. Thats happening its not there yet.

Just my opinions

Never is a very long time. Apple have been talking about combining them for years. But in practice it is very difficult to do, and even microsoft hasn't got it 100% right yet. But windows 10 is a stepping stone. When the iphone was first released, they made a big thing by saying iOS was built on top of OSX code, when in reality it they are very separate. Apple have made OSX more ipad like. Basically it all involves making the OS 'responsive' like they have for websites, so it adapts to the type and size of screen and type of device it is on. I all comes down to how long Apple will remain relevant for, they have almost died before, so they do need to keep reinventing things. I can see OSX becoming dated and irrelevant to normal consumer users, when compared to windows 10, which is more modern and made for the touch environment and tablets. They problem with is is they are playing catchup with their apps, as they were very late to the game.

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gzt

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#1385064 10-Sep-2015 15:44

mattwnz: but wasn't it Steve Jobs who ridiculed tablets with pens...or maybe that was just non apple tablets with pens.

This is iPencil. There are some differences.

tdgeek

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#1385065 10-Sep-2015 15:45

Paul1977:
tdgeek: That the Surface can be a tablet isnt even relevant as the iPad cant be a laptop

But that's the whole point!

Are you saying that it would be unfair to compare the Surface RT and Surface Pro?

My take on all this is the the word business has been used a lot. Ignoring business use, yes we can and should compare everything
to see the strengths and weaknesses. But in a business use case, the iPad doesnt make the cut to be worth comparing. When a couple of things change that Ive mentioned a few times then we can, for business uses. (I dont count the niche uses tablets have)

mattwnz

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#1385067 10-Sep-2015 15:45

gzt:

IOS in 9 is getting a multitasking desktop. The battle is getting hotter but they are still not yet on the same ground.

The surface rt had the same multitasking/split screen tablet years ago, as have may android devices, so apple are just playing catchup with ios9 in terms of that feature.

Paul1977

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#1385068 10-Sep-2015 15:46

tdgeek: From a personal side, I find the pro appealing. The 6 Plus is too big and too heavy, but the screen make it worthwhile, thats how I see it for me. Split screen wont be teeny, and streaming TV on a 12.9 will be sweet.

And for some users, like yourself, I'm sure the iPad Pro will be the best device for what they require. I'm not arguing that the iPad Pro has no use, just that I believe it is now being targeted at the same segment and that it is reasonable to compare the two.

macuser

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#1385069 10-Sep-2015 15:47

Lastman: It's interesting just what progress is occurring with Apple's ARM based chips. This A9X would appear to be (given the stated improvement from the A8X) competing or exceeding the i-core range in the Surface Pros, let alone those that are Atom based. This could mean Apple are close to moving away from Intel in their OSX based products. Noting the i-core products are 10-20 times the power consumption.

I think you need to take Apples comments about performance of their A9X with a grain of salt.

You might have the fastest hardware on earth, but its still an iPad. I'm sure they have ARM builds of OSX somewhere in Cupertino, but I think the performance would have to be far far better for them to consider a platform change.

Intel is starting to stagnate with its development because it is a monopoly, but they would need to be stagnant for some years yet before Apple would switch platforms.

Did you see how well Windows RT did? Apple did a good job with its Power PC to Intel transition, so I'm sure they're capable of it, but I'm thinking of the hardware required to run its Mac Pros and high end consumer gear (MBP/iMac).

I'd be interested to see Core-M vs A9X

Paul1977

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#1385074 10-Sep-2015 15:52

tdgeek:
Paul1977:
tdgeek: That the Surface can be a tablet isnt even relevant as the iPad cant be a laptop

But that's the whole point!

Are you saying that it would be unfair to compare the Surface RT and Surface Pro?

My take on all this is the the word business has been used a lot. Ignoring business use, yes we can and should compare everything
to see the strengths and weaknesses. But in a business use case, the iPad doesnt make the cut to be worth comparing. When a couple of things change that Ive mentioned a few times then we can, for business uses. (I dont count the niche uses tablets have)

Fair enough. But I think the comparison for most will be inevitable, if for no other reason than the naming similarity of "Pro".

Anyway, we can agree to disagree on this

Lastman

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#1385077 10-Sep-2015 16:02

macuser:
Lastman: It's interesting just what progress is occurring with Apple's ARM based chips. This A9X would appear to be (given the stated improvement from the A8X) competing or exceeding the i-core range in the Surface Pros, let alone those that are Atom based. This could mean Apple are close to moving away from Intel in their OSX based products. Noting the i-core products are 10-20 times the power consumption.

I think you need to take Apples comments about performance of their A9X with a grain of salt.

You might have the fastest hardware on earth, but its still an iPad. I'm sure they have ARM builds of OSX somewhere in Cupertino, but I think the performance would have to be far far better for them to consider a platform change.

Intel is starting to stagnate with its development because it is a monopoly, but they would need to be stagnant for some years yet before Apple would switch platforms.

Did you see how well Windows RT did? Apple did a good job with its Power PC to Intel transition, so I'm sure they're capable of it, but I'm thinking of the hardware required to run its Mac Pros and high end consumer gear (MBP/iMac).

I'd be interested to see Core-M vs A9X

I wouldn't say Intel have a monopoly at all at the moment, they are under big pressure from declining PC sales and they haven't been able to engineer their Atom base processors to compete with ARM based chips.

tdgeek

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#1385103 10-Sep-2015 17:03

Paul1977:
tdgeek:
Paul1977:
tdgeek: That the Surface can be a tablet isnt even relevant as the iPad cant be a laptop

But that's the whole point!

Are you saying that it would be unfair to compare the Surface RT and Surface Pro?

My take on all this is the the word business has been used a lot. Ignoring business use, yes we can and should compare everything
to see the strengths and weaknesses. But in a business use case, the iPad doesnt make the cut to be worth comparing. When a couple of things change that Ive mentioned a few times then we can, for business uses. (I dont count the niche uses tablets have)

Fair enough. But I think the comparison for most will be inevitable, if for no other reason than the naming similarity of "Pro".

Anyway, we can agree to disagree on this

I do see where you are comng from. It is the Pro so I can certainly see your point. All Apple have done is make it bigger which is easier and nicer to use. If they think that this and KB and pencil makes it a business device, ouch.

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