2degrees: Changes to IP Addresses (CGNAT)

Forums › 2degrees (including Slingshot, Orcon, Flip, Stuff Fibre, MyRepublic, 2talk and Vocus) › 2degrees: Changes to IP Addresses (CGNAT)

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#2304538 23-Aug-2019 12:05

NickMack:

Hi All,

Sorry I've been OOF for a day or so. Thanks for the feedback/comments, I am following up with various parties to prepare a response, I wanted to reply here so that you're aware that things are going on in the background vs. radio silence.

Nick.

gezz Nick, your not allowed to travel! must be on demand on social media 24/7!

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

toejam316

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#2304554 23-Aug-2019 12:23

For me the simple answer is this, If an ISP using CG-NAT (implemented well) is a deal breaker for you, pay for a Public Static IP.

CG-NAT can be a pain in the ass, and have weird hiccups (I personally ran across a super weird routing issue going from some CG-NAT Bigpipe customers to my Bigpipe public IP which ended up causing me to leave Bigpipe), but the vast majority of the disadvantages are from a complexity stand-point for the ISP, who gets to wear all the phone calls about Timmy having NAT Type 2 in CoD Black Ops 4 on his Xbox when he had NAT Type 1 before.

It's not ideal, but neither is the current IPv4 situation. Don't cry about CG-NAT on v4, push for quicker adoption of v6, which to 2degrees credit they've done (and MOSTLY without issue).

Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.

rugrat

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#2304572 23-Aug-2019 12:52

Nah, I’ll just switch to an ISP that suits my needs. I chose 2degrees because they weren’t CG Nat, all the ones that were was ruled off my list who to change to.

Can do better then paying $10 a month for static IP.

Services that are impacted cannot force them to work with IPv6.

Before do anything will wait for 2degrees offical response as been happy with them to date, though haven’t had to contact them since taking ages to answer phone thing has come up as well.

Spark takes forever to, but at least they offer call backs and online chat got some things resolved quickly to, just comparing with Spark as it’s only other one I’ve had experience with.

NickMack

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#2304580 23-Aug-2019 13:17

hio77:

NickMack:

Hi All,

Sorry I've been OOF for a day or so. Thanks for the feedback/comments, I am following up with various parties to prepare a response, I wanted to reply here so that you're aware that things are going on in the background vs. radio silence.

Nick.

gezz Nick, your not allowed to travel! must be on demand on social media 24/7!

Hiya Hio,

Engaging with the great tech community is something i do because i choose to, not because it's part of my job :-)

Nick.

https://nick.mackechnie.co.nz | NZ ISP latency monitoring - https://smokeping.thenet.gen.nz

jnimmo

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#2304648 23-Aug-2019 14:04

Wow, this is pretty surprising, hoping there will be an opt out option or at least the cost of static IPs reduced.

kiwibob1

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#2304741 23-Aug-2019 15:28

rugrat: Nah, I’ll just switch to an ISP that suits my needs. I chose 2degrees because they weren’t CG Nat, all the ones that were was ruled off my list who to change to.

Can do better then paying $10 a month for static IP.

Services that are impacted cannot force them to work with IPv6.

The good news is that IPv6 has no NAT, CG or otherwise. You would think that those who run services that depend on end to end connectivity would by now have seen the light and be insisting on dual stack. If not complain! Loudly!

We've (well some of us) have been banging on about IPv4 exhaustion now for years and CGNAT is the inevitable consequence of failure to implement IPv6 on a large scale years ago.

2degrees is one of the few ISP's who have done the Right Thing (tm) and implemented IPv6 for all and they did it years ago (back when they were SNAP). Although NZ is ahead of many in IPv6 adoption we are still way behind the US (see Amamai stats here) and depressingly some ISP's who had IPv6 have dropped it as not so important (cf Bigpipe ).

I'd like to think that the cost and support issues related to CGNAT would make ISP's rethink the need for IPv6 roll out but in the meantime I suggest those who care vote with their dollars.

NickMack

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#2304793 23-Aug-2019 16:08

hio77:

CGNAT or peering, what's the worst of the two? :P

in saying that.. there is an error in the content.

Hi Hio,

Thanks for the feedback, I have worked with the appropriate teams to have this updated.

Nick.

https://nick.mackechnie.co.nz | NZ ISP latency monitoring - https://smokeping.thenet.gen.nz

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hio77

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#2304794 23-Aug-2019 16:10

NickMack:

Hi Hio,

Thanks for the feedback, I have worked with the appropriate teams to have this updated.

Nick.

As always, love your work :)

Beer O'clock time..

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

Tinkerisk

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#2304864 23-Aug-2019 18:03

Allocating more private(!) IPv4 address space for CG-NAT prolongs the tenacious transition to IPv6 of "sitting-duck-ISPs" at the price of their customers.

- NET: FTTH, OPNsense, 10G backbone, GWN APs, ipPBX
- SRV: 12 RU HA server cluster, 0.1 PB storage on premise
- IoT: thread, zigbee, tasmota, BidCoS, LoRa, WX suite, IR
- 3D: two 3D printers, 3D scanner, CNC router, laser cutter

toejam316

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#2304866 23-Aug-2019 18:06

The thing is, we're at the point now where the only way to get additional IPv4 space is to buy it from someone else with an allocation, and most people with an allocation are using it. To buy the IP space, you're buying the business. It makes a lot more sense for 2degrees to invest into CG-NAT rather than buying more IPv4 space, and it makes sense, given how they've grown over the past few years.

Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.

timmmay

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#2304869 23-Aug-2019 18:29

If I had a static IPv6 allocation I could set up my VPN to use that, assuming Android and Vodafone both support IPv6. Vodafone doesn't seem to do IPv6 on my Huawei P9 though. That and torrents are the main things for me - oddly enough I do download Linux ISOs somewhat frequently.

Tracer

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#2304918 23-Aug-2019 21:03

timmmay:

If I had a static IPv6 allocation I could set up my VPN to use that, assuming Android and Vodafone both support IPv6. Vodafone doesn't seem to do IPv6 on my Huawei P9 though. That and torrents are the main things for me - oddly enough I do download Linux ISOs somewhat frequently.

Spark mobile don't do IPv6 so that's not an option for a large portion of people.

-e- I also have a number of Linux/BSD ISOs, and Lyndiman's excellent NZ X-Plane scenery seeding.

ripdog

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#2304981 24-Aug-2019 00:52

I just hope it's not going to be $10 a month for a public IP... Please make it a static charge like Bigpipe was.

BarTender

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#2305036 24-Aug-2019 09:02

timmmay:
Do Spark peer directly with CloudFlare? A lot of sites use CloudFlare so not having that would slow things down.

Do Spark connect into Sydney for low latency access to AWS / Azure?

Fairly sure that Spark will never peer with Cloudflare.
The attack in Christchurch is a really good reason to never use Cloudflare.

ripdog

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#2305039 24-Aug-2019 09:08

BarTender:
Fairly sure that Spark will never peer with Cloudflare.
The attack in Christchurch is a really good reason to never use Cloudflare.

Are... are you really blaming a DDOS-protection platform which has minimal censorship for NZs worst mass murder?

I'd tell you what I think about your opinion, but it'd be against the FUG, so I'll have to leave it to your imagination.

Good thing violence didn't exist before the internet, eh.

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